What killed the Long EZ?

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Offline Cougar68

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What killed the Long EZ?
« on: January 11, 2011, 08:12:44 PM »
Okay, maybe killed is too strong a word since so many are out there flying.  What I'm trying to understand is why there aren't more under construction these days and the popularity seems to be waning.  We now live in a land full of rivet and fly RV's when composites once seemed to be the future. 

I'm gearing up for building a Long myself and trying to figure out if maybe there's a hidden gotcha that I need to know about.  From my research it seems to be relatively simple (although time consuming) to construct, economical, fast, and most importantly it looks cool as heck sitting on the ramp.  I know after RAF folded that plans were worth their weight in gold, but I would think with the Open EZ project that we would see a rise in the number of Long's out there.

So was it the closing of RAF?  Burt announcing that he would no longer support or authorize any builder even with original plans? The price of second hand plans?  Uncertainty about the Open EZ project?  The John Denver crash?  A shift in thought that decided aluminum construction was the best way to go? (after seeing strength demos I just can't believe this one) Or is there some other reason that I'm missing?

Offline Linda

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 08:27:28 PM »
Plans are going for around $700.00 give or take a few.  That is for a new COMPLETE set. You can find them on the internet, Central States, and Canard Aviators from those individual trying to sell as they have changed there mind.
Long live the Long-EZ the best plans built plane around.

Offline LongEZDaveA

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 08:58:33 PM »
The main thing in my opinion is the time to build.  You could probably build a few RVs out of the quick build kits in the time it takes to build a Long EZ.  Building a Long EZ is much more of a time commitment than I could imagine when I started building.  It's all worth it to me in my O-235 Long when I'm in a SARL race and pass up an RV with an O-360 in it!!!
Dave Adams, Long EZ N83DT (Race 83) Villa Ridge, MO

Offline Bruce Hughes

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 09:57:33 PM »
Hi Cougar

The time required is a big factor.  Another is the possibility of making serious errors
that will haunt or kill you.  I have done over many, many things (which adds a little
weight each time).  You MUST have some expert help from other builders who know
what they are doing.   As so many pilots have a lot more experience with aluminum,
composite experts are not so abundant.   We can give you names, depending on'
where you live.   Which is ?

If properly built, the Longeze should be safer; the Longeze will take a lot of Gs.

DON'T make changes in the plans unless you are an aeronautical engineer.  I did that
and had to go back to the plan configuration every time.

Bruce Hughes   :)
Yelm, WA
Longeze N199BH
retired
taught at Maui Community College

Offline Rick Hall

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 12:20:09 AM »
... I'm gearing up for building a Long myself ...
  ;D  ;D
Quote
... and trying to figure out if maybe there's a hidden gotcha that I need to know about. ...

Threat of a lawsuit can cost big bux, even if the suit is w/o merit. I can't fault RAF in the least for getting out of the 'consumer' business. There's still support for canards, this forum is but one example.

1) The "spam can" boyz can tell a good rivet job from a bad one, there's even a gauge they can use to prove it. 2) Many, if not all, of the metal bits come pre/match drilled from the factory, assembly is often "Insert tab A into slot B"...

A) How can you tell a good fiberglass layup from a bad one, there is no gauge. B) Some people are allergic to epoxy, others have no desire to work with cloth/foam/resin.

Rick
Cozy MK-IV, plans #1477. 90% done, 70% to go!
Currently working on the canopy, side windows just installed.
My hobby at: http://zggtr.org My plane at: http://cozy.zggtr.org/

Offline Cougar68

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 03:23:17 PM »
So I guess it seems that the opinion is the time commitment is too off putting?  Not suprising really with today's microwave society.  At least I'll know going in that I'll end up with a superior plane on the back side.  :D

BTW, I'm in Smyrna, TN just south of Nashville.  Getting ready to join up to the CSA and order the backissues of the newsletter.  Read all of the CP's cover to cover twice and starting to make the required changes in the plans.  Really excited about building!

Offline Bruce Hughes

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 08:56:04 PM »
OK  We know where you are.....   When you get the CSA directory you can see who is
close by WITH A FLYING AIRPLANE.   Also look up Curt Smith (I forgot which state but
I think he is in S. Illinois).  He is a CFI and has a Cozy.  He will charge but it is a chance
to get some stick time.

A lot of people have built good airplanes a lot faster than I developed my project.  If
you learn how to do CORRECT fiberglass work, yours will be light enough.

I believe there is a state rep. for TN.   I don't have my newsletters as I am away from
home.  Look around page 20-24.

You might contact Valerie Harris.  I believe she is TN.  She and her husband have a
build/repair business so you could learn a lot from them.  She can show you some
really BAD composite work.   :(

Bruce Hughes   :)
Yelm, WA
Longeze N199BH
retired
taught at Maui Community College

Offline Rick Hall

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 02:13:18 AM »
So I guess it seems that the opinion is the time commitment is too off putting? 
I dunnow. I think if you compare a RV kit to one of our canards, the build times are similar... about 2,000 hours. But you can buy pre-built sub assemblies for an RV. Other than AeroCanard parts, a canard is mostly built from pictures/text on paper

Also occurred to me, you'll never see a canard builder building in his/her Sunday duds. And there's times a canard builder will just let the phone ring, sometimes it's difficult to take a few minutes/hours off a procedure.
Quote
BTW, I'm in Smyrna, TN just south of Nashville. ...

Falls of Rough State Resort Park (KY), AKA: 2i3, AKA: CSA Rough River Canard Fly-in. End of September, be there, total canard immersion. Total. 25th anniversary this year too, should be a big event.

Rick
Cozy MK-IV, plans #1477. 90% done, 70% to go!
Currently working on the canopy, side windows just installed.
My hobby at: http://zggtr.org My plane at: http://cozy.zggtr.org/

Offline Cougar68

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 04:03:42 AM »
Falls of Rough State Resort Park (KY), AKA: 2i3, AKA: CSA Rough River Canard Fly-in. End of September, be there, total canard immersion. Total. 25th anniversary this year too, should be a big event.

My wife and son came up there with me this past year.  The decision maker wanted to get up close and personal with a Long before she was willing to turn me loose.  Even with the cold and rain on Saturday she had a blast and was literally giddy about the idea of us flying around in something that looked so incredibly cool.  We'll definitely make the return trip for the next one!

Offline Rick Hall

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 04:43:14 AM »
My wife and son came up there with me this past year. ...

Oh man, I missed ya! I was the rude obnoxious guy on the motor scooter. I had the patent on gin&tonic under the circus tent at night, and flapped my gums a lot during the Sam/Dave show Saturday evening. Balding, 5'8", glasses, ... Hard to miss ;)

Ya, I look forward to chatting wit ya! 25th anniversary of the fly-in this year, shaping up to be a stellar event :)

Rick
Cozy MK-IV, plans #1477. 90% done, 70% to go!
Currently working on the canopy, side windows just installed.
My hobby at: http://zggtr.org My plane at: http://cozy.zggtr.org/

Offline Bill James

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 10:52:15 PM »
Not the answer to your question, just an observation on the perceived numbers of EZs.
It’s not a landslide, but I can’t help but notice the number of VariEzes still being built out there.
And the number of VariEze guys that have a LongEZ or Cozy coming together in a back corner of their hangar.
This year at RR there was a very interesting and enjoyable group of VariEze guys there, still flying or cooking on some burner or another, flying their Vari regularly, or too busy with ‘something’ to get out and fly as often as they want to.
And if you are active and flying your canard plane much, you are probably getting plenty of contacts from new builders or rebuilders.
In October I put out a tongue in cheek report on a friend with the oldest VariEze that still didn’t quite make it to RR this past year. It was inspired by the number of guys that are still mixing epoxy and dreaming of first flight.
Just an observation…  :) 
Bill James, Fort Worth VariEze N95BJ
Downdraft Plenums, QuickCowls
There was supposed to be anhedral?
ATP, Society of Flight Test Engineers

Offline Jon Matcho

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2014, 08:03:42 AM »
The Open-EZ project was mentioned in this post.  The Open-EZ project is alive and well, however, please see this very important post regarding the Open-EZ Templates:  http://www.canardzone.com/forum/topic/20540-important-update-regarding-open-ez-rev-5-templates/
Jon Matcho
Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Building Cozy Mark IV+
www.canardzone.com

Offline Dricke

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2014, 01:37:36 PM »
I bougt a Long ez project about 4 years ago and life got in the way, I am shocked at just how dead the Long ez is, I have had it up for sale for about three of those years since I got it, even offered it at half what I have in in it and found absolutely no interest in it, been considering breaking down to what parts I can sell chopping it up and hauling to dump and free up valuable shop space

Offline Dricke

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2014, 10:47:36 PM »
If you messaged me about the project I can't respond because of the verification codes send me a email address I can respond to

Offline patchntx

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Re: What killed the Long EZ?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2014, 11:51:08 PM »
I have spoken to a few people wanting to start a LEZ or find an abandoned project. The problem is often cost. I wouldn't expect that if I threw in the towel and gave up building my Cozy that I would sell it for more than 30% of what I have in it. Market value is a long way from build cost in any of the experimental aircraft.

In the last six months there have been half dozen flying VEZ under $20K, one flying LEZ Under $20K and several more under $30K. Plus all the standard priced LEZ and Cozy's on the market. The cheapest way to build a plane right now might be to buy a used one. It really devalues the non flying projects when there are that many flying examples on the market.
Scott "Patch" Humphrey
Cozy III Ch. 8
LongEZ.Patch@gmail.com
http://websites.expercraft.com/longezpatch
817-891-0910