Help with Long EZ vs. Vari EZ purchase decision.

[PaulN]

All:
I have recently moved to the Seattle area, and I'm looking to buy a canard (either Long EZ or Vari EZ). It will be used for my wife and I to fly locally and maybe a few cross country trips.
Is there anyone who can give me some pointers on the characteristics of each, and what to look out for on a pre-purchase inspection. I'm an experienced pilot, but fairly new to the homebuilt world. Obviously, I really need to understand what to look for when buying a plane someone else has built.
Where should I look to purchase one? Can a composite aircraft be stored outside if properly covered?
Also, is there anyone in the area who has a canard and wouldn't mind taking me for a flight (or at least willing to talk about it) to get to know these aircraft a little better?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.
PaulN
 

[flyingwaldo]

Check your PM's.

[Bruce Hughes]

Hi Paul

There are several/many canard people in WA.   Some (me) do not know much but
some are very expert.   I think your best bet is ask Joe Person (425-481-3645)
who has built 2 variezes and is an engineer for Boeing.   Also Ken Koskella ((360-337-2171)
who has a Longeze.   Also Joe Hull (425-898-7972) who has a Cozy.   Also Michael
Sabourin (206-246-3263) who has a Longeze.

Be aware that there are 2 types of Longezes, those with the GU canard and those
with the Roncz canard.   If you have a GU canard, you have a lot of air leaks which is
not very good in WA in the winter.

I will not be back in WA until Mar. 2.   I will be happy to show mine to you as an
example of all of the things you can do wrong during building.   Cannot fly you yet;
I still have to get the FAA to look at it.

If you find an airplane and want an inspection (ABSOLUTELY essential), call Dale Martin
or one of the other expert A & P guys (I can give you a list)(my phone is 808-250-0939)

David Orr knows which aircraft are for sale or may be for sale.  949-939-1479
He charges a finder's fee.

Bruce Hughes   

[kenk]

I would be happy to show you my LongEz. I am the builder owner, with 2200 hours on the airplane. Bruce Hughes listed my old phone number. The correct one is 360-535-9562, can call or text. I know quite a bit about the Long, less about the Vari.  Weather permitting, we could do a demo flight sometime. I live across the water in the Silverdale/Bremerton area, the airplane is hangared at the Bremerton airport.

In general, the Long Ez is a little roomier, has a bit better payload, longer range, slightly lower landing speed, generally similar flying characteristics, but probably costs a little more. I think the consensus is that a Long Ez with an O320 is a good airplane, but if you live at sea level an O-235 equipped Long is a good airplane. I flew mine with an O-235 for 1500 hours, much prefer the O320 particularly since I fly back and forth to McCall Idaho a lot and like the extra oomph for takeoff at that 5000' msl airport.

For two people, the Long Ez has a bit more room and I think I would lean towards a LongEZ if you really must carry two people around. Pretty limited in the Vari with two people. However, Vari owners can weighin here (pun intended).

Both have reasonable handling characteristics, there are issues with the two canards (easy to solve), construction issues, availability.  Yes they can be stored outside. Mine was on a ramp for about 15 years, in California (Bay area and 29 Palms), Maryland, then Washington. Hangar better but not essential. Flew mine without a starter for 15 years; kind of a pain but keeps it light and simple, as designed. Love the starter, but have a more complex and heavier airplane now.

My recommendations? find a wellbuilt, minimally equipped, Long Ez with either engine, fly it for a few years then maybe start adding weight and complexity. While mine is IFR capable and equipped, consider it at most an occasional IFR airplane, particularly in the winter in this area where the freezing level is almost always below min vectoring altitude. There are enough vfr days to get in and out of the area.

Ken Koskella

[mfryer]

Ken. I also would be very interested in seeing your Long-EZ. I am building one here in Olympia. Just finnishing up the center section spar.

You can check out my progress at flyingbackward.blogspot.com. Perhaps when the weather is good I will fly over to bremmerton and take a look.

[PaulN]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll be making some phone calls in the next few days to follow up.
Paul

[Bruce Hughes]

Hi Paul

You are welcome.   BTW there is a way to avoid the leaks that the GU canard people
have.   The "fix" was published in the CSA newsletter (in 2008?)    Anyway it is easy
to find the article; I am just not at home right now.

You have joined the CSA, I hope.   There is an annual index of the articles for that
year.   You also can get back issues (I think they are the same price as current).

Paul, when you find a good project BE SURE THAT YOU HAVE A QUALIFIED  PERSON
TO CHECK IT OUT!   Of course you will need to pay for that service.  The person will
depend on where the airplane.   There must be a lot of qualified people but the
following are the people that I know to be VERY knowledgable:
Dale Martin - Idaho
Ken Miller - New York
Burrall Sanders - Colorado
Bill Oertel - S. California
Valerie Harris - Tennessee
Other people on this website can list other A & P canard support people that I don't know.
The CSA directory has their email and phone numbers except for Miller and Sanders.
Those 2 have their own websites but you may have to google up the names (or
see THIS website; I think both are listed).

I made a lot of mistakes which had to be corrected;  That, of course, adds weight.
And I got too much fill on the outer surface.   However I THINK it was ALREADY too
heavy when I bought the project.   You should insist on getting an accurate weight
with aircraft scales BEFORE the $ changes hands.   The club at Thun Field (Pierce County)
has superb scales.

Bruce Hughes   

[kelsey]

You can also contact Tom Smith in the Northern California area. He is an A&P and has built and fly's a Long-EZ. He is in the CSA.

[easyrider]

 
Paul
If you find a LongEZ with an O-235 a good mod.that gives the O-235 an extra 10 HP is the Sparrowhawk conversion.
Basically it is fitting high comp. pistons and advancing the Mags.I have the conversion and it makes a significant difference in performance.If you need details email me.
Don Denhard
LongEZ 93EZ

[dr0von0pico]

I am also in Bremerton, just moved there a couple of months ago. I have a Varieze which I moved to my garage when I couldn't find a hangar spot... I'm at sea most of the time anyway. If you are going to be flying 2-place most of the time I'd strongly recommend the Long EZ. My Vari fits two people without any problem, but I lose out on a lot of baggage space (practically zero). You'll go a bit slower in a Long than a Vari for the same fuel burn, or will burn more fuel to match a Vari's speed, but gee all that extra space is much more practical when your back seat is filled with your honey-bunny, plus there's all that extra wing area to support the bigger motors and whiz-bang gadgets that people put on planes these days. I bought my Vari to be my spartan one-man chariot and consider my passenger to be self-loading baggage, sort of a nice afterthought but not normally carried, like an accordion on a deer hunting expedition.

You can give me a call if you like... chances are I'll be at sea though... no cell towers out there... love the Navy. 559-309-3240.

Andres Pico

[rotorbailey]

Very helpful feedback. I am in a similar position in New England (although deciding between LongEZ and Cozy Mark IV). Do any of you have recommendations of people I could talk to in this area? If so, would you please respond to my New England-titled post at http://www.ez.org/smf/index.php?topic=5048.0

(Bruce, I'll send you a PM to get contact information for Ken Miller in New York.)

[dorr]

I've been helping people with the Varieze decision for 20 years - think of the Varieze as 80% of a Long EZ for 50% of the cost, generally - the price break is at $25,000 - if you cannot afford $25,000 - stay away from cheaper Long EZs, go for top Variezes.

Varieze is not worth building unless you live in EU where fuel might dictate.  Final values are less now than cost of building, unlike the Long EZ.  I have a long blurb on comparing Long EZ and Cozy IV and Varieze and Long EZ, just hit me up - free advice: David Orr canardfinder@att.net

Cozy IV, finished seems to be listed from $75,000 to $80,000 - the Long EZ has bigger range $25,000 O-235 basic to $60,000 for top O-320 Long EZ.  The Cozy IV, for about 10% to 20% more work is worth a lot more per man hour of work.

Beagle