Glass Instruments

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Offline Ghost-Rider

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Glass Instruments
« on: January 21, 2005, 11:54:37 AM »
Has anyone installed STRATOMASTER Maxi-Singles out there?
I am getting ready to do my panel on my VariEZe and I am very interested in using these gauges. If anyone has any feedback please advise and send pic’s if possible.

http://www.sportflyingshop.com/
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Anonymous

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Re: Glass Instruments
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2005, 07:03:28 PM »
Quote from: "Ghost-Rider"
Has anyone installed STRATOMASTER Maxi-Singles out there?
I am getting ready to do my panel on my VariEZe and I am very interested in using these gauges. If anyone has any feedback please advise and send pic’s if possible.

http://www.sportflyingshop.com/
[/img]


I have seen some other glass gauges in EZs and RVs. Pilots seem to love them. This one does look pretty slick. Kinda of a HUD on the panel.

To be honest, these glass gauges are getting pretty freaking amazing.  I still got my steam gauges, but gotta admit, it's getting tempting to switch over.

Good luck;

Jack

Offline Snappy

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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2005, 11:04:36 PM »
Check out Dynon Avionics

http://www.dynonavionics.com

You get the whole shishkabob on one screen.  Cheaper too if you add all the invidual instruments up...............
Snappy
Long EZ 988AB

Offline Ghost-Rider

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DYNON
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2005, 05:12:48 AM »
Snappy,

I looked at the Dynon and saw one installed in a VariEZe, Frank Pallano has one in his EZ and he is very happy with it. I did a price comparison and the Maxi-Singles are a little cheaper and easier to read because everything is not bunched up into a compact screen like the Dynon. I found a second site with some good Maxi-Single Pic's.

http://www.aveousa.com

EZ Pilot

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Check it Out
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2005, 05:42:38 PM »
I sort of like this one...more advanced than the others, with a few different models...the Lite is pretty cheap & a good performer.

http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/

Offline Ghost-Rider

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Blue Mountain
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2005, 01:10:38 PM »
EZ Pilot,

I agree the Blue Mountain Lite is a good product, but like the Dynon everything is very compacted. I designed two panels that I think will give me what I am looking for. I welcome any Pro and Con comments that might point me in the direction of a better panel design.

Thank you.

Panel-1
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=192488&ck=[/code]

Panel-2
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=192490&ck=

larry

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stratomaster
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2005, 05:09:40 PM »
I bought the Stratomaster Single RPM last year.  It seems a little hard to read.   All functions.

Anonymous

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Glass Instruments
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2005, 09:40:22 PM »
I would loose the trim indicators they are just not needed. You have the elevator right in front of you, just look out the window. and I would move the warning lights closer together and save space for later additions.

db

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panel design
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2005, 11:51:24 PM »
Ghost Rider,

I prefer the radios on the left-hand side so that I can easily change them with my right hand on the stick.

Regarding those small radios, my hangar buddy has the Beckers and they work flawlessly.  Another buddy has had some troubles with the Microair transponder.  Small sample size, but maybe significant.

Offline Dan Patch

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 01:11:32 AM »
Laying out a panel to get it just the way you want takes a lot of work, but it's well worth the effort because changing things later causes a lot of work, agrivation, and cosmetic repair.  Without spending a fair amount of time looking into your particular instruments and what they display it is going to be difficult to make recommendations go much deeper than first impressions.  So, for what they are worth, here's what I see.  Keep in mind that I'm coming from an IFR-panel, VariEze with the "old fashion" gauges somewhat like the Long-EZ on your panel research page.

The first impression is that you are using about half of your panel for lights and indicators.  It's nice to have all that space to 'use up' with filler, but I certainly didn't have that luxury - my panel is packed!  So I tend to agree with 'guest'.  

I don't think that you will find the OAT to be of primary interest so I'd plan on moving it into a more obscure location sooner or later so that you will have some prime space for your autopilot which will need a standard 3 1/8 hole... or?  If you really want the aileron trim indicator on the panel, at least move it up enough so that when you put in your AP it won't overlap the AP location.  

I like the 3 inch panel better than the 2 incher.

Are you going to measure manifold pressure?  Once you determine that your engine is turning up to the proper static rpm on take-off you may find that MP is a far better instrument for setting power when flying formation and in cruise.  

What GPS are you planning on using and where is it going to go?  I think that you will find that this will be your primary navigation radio and that the VOR is just along for the ride.  The GPS needs to get one of the prime seats in the house.  

If you use instruments with liquid crystal displays, be sure that you can read the instruments easily and that you are happy with what you see.  Big letters are better than small!

Is it a requirement that the ELT be mounted on the panel?  Since with luck you will NEVER use this instrument, it's painful to surrender even a square inch of panel space to what is fundamentally a distraction (i.e., panel clutter).  

Think carefully about whether you want to have green lights that are on all the time and located directly in your vision, particularly at night.  As a minimum, be sure you can dim them down to nearly out.  Personally, I like warning lights when things are bad, and NO lights when things are OK.  You will know when the landing light is on without a panel light indicator, for sure.  Nav lights on is not a flight critical item - same with the strobe.  You want the red canopy open warning light, FOR SURE, but no warning equals OK, so the canopy green doesn't tell you anything more than 'red not on' tells you.  I assume that the canopy open red is really the VariEze master warning light that includes the throttle closed - gear up warning indication also?  Trust me, you really need a gear up warning light that comes on (and a nice loud horn too) when the throttle is closed and the gear is still up!  Your 'blue' gear-up light won't quite cut it because it's not in your line of sight and you will completely 'tune out' anything that is on all the time.  

Where is your trusty mag compass located?  It's a required instrument is it not?  I have a vertical card compass like Frank Pullano and really like it.  

So there's a few quick comments, FWIW.

Best
DeltaPop
VariEze N862DP
(@1970 hrs)

Offline Waiter

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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2005, 06:35:02 AM »
Good call on these instruments. I think either panel layout would be acceptable. Isn't photo edit wonderful. After seeing yours, I did a rough photo edit of my panel to see how things would fit. I'll post it at www.iflyez.com.

On switches that are down low on the panel, you might take your dremel and cut the bat to about 1/2 its original length. This reduces the possibility of pant leg cuffs from snagging them when your getting in and out.


I'm going to replace most of the old mechanical engine stuff with one of the EC1s. Frees up a lot of valuable real estate on the panel. EGT, CHT, RPM, Oil Temp & Pressure.

Landing Gear Warning Horn - Find the loudest, most obnotious horn you can get your hands on that runs on 12vdc.

My thoughts on Gear Warning Horn - I could be on fire, in a inverted flat spin, kids screaming and puking down my back, with wings ripping off. And if that damn horn goes off, it gets my immediate and overwhelming attention. Gear warning must override EVERYTHING. (This is even more important in my full retract system)

A light is not enough, I guarentee (does this sound like personnal experience?), you will be looking directly at the light and thinking "Why is that light on?" as the plane gently falls on its nose and merrily skids down the runway.

Waiter
LongEZ-RG   >>    N961EZ
O-320 160hp  >>    MT Constant Speed Prop
F-16 Performance, On a Piper Cub Budget
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Anonymous

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Glass Instruments
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2005, 10:01:22 AM »
Gear warning horn.  I had one that was also wired into low fuel warning.  Not a good idea because when one tank was low, the damn horn would be so loud that I couldn't hear the tower over the radio.

Then I thought I was the best pilot in the world and would never land without lowering the gear.  I got caught (thank goodness) by Chino tower trying to 'gear up' on short final.  The next day I bought a horn from Radio Shack for $12.  Yes, I have used it when things were turning to $%^& entering the pattern and forgot to drop the gear.  The $12 was well worth it!

Steve
988AB

Offline Drew

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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2005, 11:31:03 AM »
I would be thinking 6 pack layout with the 3 1/8 inch holes, maybe add 1 or 2 holes of this same size and then fill up the panel nicely with the 2 1/4 inch holes while leaving room for required switches on the panel.  Blank off the holes you don't need and put reducers in for the standard six pack if you go smaller.  This will give you some upgrade room----and I have assumed that you don't really have to add any square gauges like radios (since you would be going for round ones).  If you don't leave some upgrade room---because you generously spread out your gauges, the only way you will be able to upgrade is to recut a new panel.

Put enough holes so that you can eventually add equipment for IFR.

Don't fill up you panel with things just to fill it up.  Don't need the trim gauges.  You can mount the elt gauge just about anywhere (underneath the panel, in the head rest (not sure if the "phone cable" they give you will reach though)-----or in my case, I don't even use it---I reset it at the source), etc).



Be careful about switches and breakers in the panel.  I have my most important switches on a side panel that always stays dry.  Your panel switches can get wet----and in Beagle's case, looks like he lost his elec ignition and mags resulting in no more thrusties.

I do like manifold pressure----since it is the only way I know what % horsepower I am running-----but then again if you get above 9000 ft or so, full power won't exceed 75%
Drew Swenson
Cozy N171ML

Offline Dan Patch

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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2005, 01:03:32 PM »
On switches that are down low on the panel, you might take your dremel and cut the bat to about 1/2 its original length. This reduces the possibility of pant leg cuffs from snagging them when your getting in and out...

This is a good point. You will find that it is remarkably easy to snag anything near the leg holes getting in or out.


Landing Gear Warning Horn - Find the loudest, most obnotious horn you can get your hands on that runs on 12vdc.... if that damn horn goes off, it gets my immediate and overwhelming attention.... A light is not enough, I guarentee (does this sound like personnal experience?), you will be looking directly at the light and thinking "Why is that light on?" as the plane gently falls on its nose and merrily skids down the runway....

Absolutely true, all of the above! Way too many canardians have 'been there, done that' without a horn (or worse, no gear warning system at all).  I used a radio shack horn too and it does the job.  

Correction to my earlier post. IF you want to keep the trim indicators on the panel, I'd move them down where they are more out of your line of sight since you will seldom want to look at them. The top of the panel is prime real estate for the instruments that you want to be looking at frequently (heading, navigation and altitude) or need to get your attention (e.g., warning lights, but not 'running lights'). A future autopilot like the Trio EZ Pilot which outputs GPS data as part of its display will serve you better high on the panel than trim indicators. Similarly, the center of the panel is more valuable space than the edges, particularly for instruments that don't read well off axis (from parallax or LCD display).

For engine instruments I consider oil pressure and temp to be #1. If these go into the red you want to know ASAP! You can live for a while with high CHTs (although you should never have to); but if Po = 0 psi you are going to be walking soon. Better to be walking on an airport than in the woods.  I have a dedicated, single gauge with limit warnings set for these just these two parameters, and it's mounted nice and high on panel, staring me in the face. I look at it often. I found that once I really got to know my EZ I didn't spend a lot of time looking at CHT and EGT - they sort of 'are what they are'. You need to check CHTs now and again for peace of mind, but your CHTs should always be OK if your engine cooling is adequate, and EGT's really are only of interest in leaning up the engine.

The more I fly, the more I value my fuel flow gauge. It is my primary instrument for leaning the engine now that I have learned what my fuel consumption 'should be' for various altitudes and manifold pressures. Knowing your fuel state and current burn rate is about as fundamental as keeping the blue side up (attitude & altitude), knowing where you are (navigation) and keeping the fan turning (no fuel equals no fan turning!).

To the extent possible, I'd suggest keeping the stuff that needs to be tuned (Nav, Com, x-ponder, intercom) in the same general panel area. As mentioned, guys like the radios on the left so they can tune and fly at the same time. I went with the conventional layout of radios on the right and don't find crossing over with my left hand to be a big deal, but I know a lot of guys that really don't like that setup at all. Similarily, all your engine management/monitoring stuff should be reasonably close together, if possible, so you can watch what's happening when tweaking the throttle or mixture.

Keeping a standard 6-pack layout is a given since its well proven and the gold standard of panel layout.  

I put all my power carrying switches on a side panel on the right side of the fuselage, ahead of the stick.  Saved a lot of panel space and takes most of the power out of the panel except for the mag/EI switches located near the throttle, and Nav-Com-MKB 'audio panel-like' switches above the radio stack. I'd do it exactly the same way again.  

Couldn't tell where your 'electrical system instruments' (volts and amps) are located. If you are flying at night, in particular, you need to know that the alternator is pushing the right number of electons up the line or it can really get dark when it's most inconvenient. This is particularly true if you are running an electronic ignition which can ratchet up the inconvenience factor a whole other level if your voltage regulator or alternator decide to pack it in. I had my regulator get flakey and wouldn't have known without seeing the volt meter start doing the cha-cha-cha. These instruments don't need center stage, but you definitely have to know that your electrical system is on line before launching (it's not that hard to miss an open alternator field switch), and to check every so often in the flight to be sure everything is still OK. Per 'The Electric Connection' make sure that your battery is big enough to carry your essential electrical load all by itself long enough to get to a convenient airport - where you get to decide what's "long enough". My definition is one full flight.

I strongly agree with the advice to keep your options open for future instruments - recutting your panel is NOT what you want to be doing.  

Happy panel planning!
 :)
DeltaPop
VariEze N862DP
(@1970 hrs)

Offline Ghost-Rider

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Panel Re-config.
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2005, 04:55:00 PM »
To all EZers that responded to my post, I thank you. I posted a couple of Instrument Panel designs on the NET in hopes of getting some feedback on whether or not I was doing the right thing, or setting myself up for failure. Instead I got a world of knowledge from a wide range of experiences. I intend on making several modifications to my original plan based on this input. I will post the changes on my web to reflect the changes and the reasons.

All of the comments are valuable and greatly appreciated. I am going to be asking for additional information/clarification on a couple of recommendations.

Example:

Radios; In one set-up I put them both on the left side and the, I put the Transponder only on the left thinking that it’s not adjusted that frequently. Am I going to have a problem with this in the future or during a long Flight-Following?

Trim Indicators; I agree with the advice I was given, they looks nice, but I could do without them and I anticipate removing them from the panel. Good Call.

Radio Brand; I am definitely going to get the small type, I just don’t know what brand just yet. I was hoping to see what new at Sun & Fun this year.

Indicator Lights; A great point was made that the lights should indicate some type of problem. That way if a light turns on it should draw your attention. In my original design I would have had several indicator lights on the entire duration of flight unnecessarily. While I am not going to follow that philosophy 100%, I do anticipate reducing the In-Flight Indicator Lights, by the way the GREEN LEDs I picked out were not very bright in comparison to the RED LEDs.

OAT; Looked like a nice thing to have, but obviously seasoned pilots agree that I can do without it and put the panel space to better use. Once again a good call and I do intend on removing this gauge.

Alarms; These gauges are relatively new to the market and the nice thing is they have several audible alarms that can be set. For Example: LOW FUEL warning, and ALTITUDE WARNING, that I hope to integrate with the nose gear. The same goes for all the temps and pressures. This should reduce warning lights.

Breakers in the Panel; Knowing that many EZs have had problems with electrical systems getting wet, I plan on ensuring on a good seal to avoid this problem. I know, Easier said then done.

Switches; Many of you may be asking Where are his switches. I added a link to this post to address that very issue. I also anticipate adding a new topic to discuss this in more detail.

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