Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.

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Offline Lowlevldevl

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« on: April 15, 2007, 09:11:40 AM »
Hi All,
Chapter 19 mentions that main wing incidence needs to be jigged to zero by adding 860-916L washers to the outboard wing attach bolts to change incidence. Any body here have experience with doing this? I'm not the builder. Mine rolls right and I'm assuming I need to loosen all 3 bolts on the starboard wing, remove the upper outboard bolt, slip another shim washer down through the gap at the shear web, reinstall the bolt and tighten all 3 again. Any advice gratefully received.
PS I have an A&P in my hangar here full time to supervise but he's never done this either.
Don

Offline Waiter

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 11:04:28 AM »
Sounds like you got a handle on it, but let me throw this out just for info.

1) A properly trimmed and rigged LongEZ will require left trim (The plane will try and turn right if the trim is set at neutral on the ground). The torque of the prop does this. Look at a group of EZs that are parked, you'll notice the left aileron is up a little and the right aileron is down.


2) Differences in the wings angle of attack (one higher than the other) OR, sweep angle can also cause this (one wing at a different sweep angle than the other)

You can check the wing sweep with a tape measure. Use the measurements that are shown in the POH under the W&B stuff.

As for angle of attack. This will require a little more care, but can be done.

One quick and easy way to verify the wings are correct in relation to each other:

a) Level the plane in pitch and roll.

b) You need a 24 inch (or greater) bubble level, a 12 - 18 inch piece of string  with a weight on the end (bolt or nut),  and a short piece of 2x4 (4 to 6 inches long)

c) position the level on the aft part of the wing. Tape the string to one end of the level (draping over the side edge). We'll use the string to line up the aft end of the level with the inboard gap of the aileron. (The wing trailing edge where the aileron cutout starts.)

Line up the forward end of the  level with the gap between the wing and the strake.

d) Slide the 2x4 between the aft end of the level and the trailing edge of the wing. Slide the 2x4 for /aft until the bubble indicates level.

Re-verify the string is lined up with the aileron gap, and the forward part of the level is line up with the strake gap.

This is important as we'll use these same reference points when setting up to read the other wing.

e) Now, measure the vertical distance between the wing trailing edge and the bottom of the level. (our string should hanging down at this position)

Recheck everything, pitch, roll, string, strake, etc.

Measure the other wing exactly the same.

If the two measurements are not the same, the wing with the larger reading has a higher angle of attack.

You can do minor changes by add or subtract shims at either the Top or the Bottom outboard bolts, depending whicjh way you need to go.

DO NOT let the wing support itself with bolts loose or missing, This places twisting forces on the bolts and hardpoints, These are not designed for these type of loads.

Use crates, boxes, anything to support the wing at the winglet, A couple small tires or something so the wing cannot twist.



1) loosten all bolts and slide the wing back 1/8 to 1/4 inch. just enough so you can see the bolt through the gap between the strake and the wing.

2) Get an accurate count as to how many washers (thick or thin) that are currently in place.

3) take the nut off the bolt and push the bolt back carefully, you may need to rock the wing a little to get the bolt to move.

If the bolts will slid freely, you can reach in the gap and slide the bolt with the blade.

Slide the bolt back just far enouh so you can insert another washer.

Use a thin piece of masking tape about 6 inches long. stick the washer to one end of the tape so its just barely on the flat of he washer. Then lower the washer into position on the bolt. Don't pull the tape off until you slide the bolt back into position.

When you snug the bolts up, always start with the outboard upper first.

do it in a couple steps, i.e. finger tight all the bolts, the go back and snug all the bolts, thn go back and tighten all the bolts.

Good Luck

Waiter
LongEZ-RG   >>    N961EZ
O-320 160hp  >>    MT Constant Speed Prop
F-16 Performance, On a Piper Cub Budget
www.iflyez.com

Offline Lowlevldevl

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 03:51:53 PM »
Thanks Waiter. That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for! :)

Offline GlennBob

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Incidence adjustment
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 01:25:42 AM »
Waiter,

Thanks for you info on the wing adjustment.  I took my wings off for the first time (after having purchased as a non builder) and didn't think to check how many washers and where.  So now I'm in the dark as to where to start.  This information will prove valuable ! !   Thanks also for the info on not leaving loose bolts on the wing.  I set mine up loose to install my auto pilot.  I munna go fix dat sicheashun pronto ! !    :oops:

Glennbob
N600EZ  O-320-E2A,  Hertzler prop, Trio AP, Narco HSI, Custom headers, Oil heat.

Offline Jack

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2007, 01:12:36 AM »
Quote from: Waiter

Use a thin piece of masking tape about 6 inches long. stick the washer to one end of the tape so its just barely on the flat of he washer. Then lower the washer into position on the bolt. Don't pull the tape off until you slide the bolt back into position.


I use silcone to hold the washers in place.  Oh yeah ensure you document how many washers are where first.  I even video tape it with comments.

Another trick of mine is to use checklists for common maintenance areas. IE. what tools are required for pulling the wing, canard etc and the steps to do it.  Review the checklist prior to the work and it can make life much easier.

Now if I can get back to flying the EZ vice driving in freaking sandpit convoys.  Life will be sweet.

Cheers;

Iraqijack

Offline Waiter

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2007, 05:55:23 AM »
Jack,

I use the tape as a string, I lower the washer into the gap and slide it onto the bolt thats sticking out of the hole a tiny bit.


Waiter
LongEZ-RG   >>    N961EZ
O-320 160hp  >>    MT Constant Speed Prop
F-16 Performance, On a Piper Cub Budget
www.iflyez.com

Offline Lowlevldevl

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 01:54:33 AM »
I did what you said Waiter. Measuring the way you suggested, the difference between port and starboard was 4 mm, starboard having the highest angle of incidence already. I added 2 of those thin washers to the upper outboard bolt ( there was already an extra 2 thick ones there!) which took the difference out to 7mm.
I test flew it just now and it did what I'd hoped. With the starboard fuel tank empty I have enough left aileron trim to fly a lazy left-hand arc. Couldn't do that before!
Now we're a happy Ozzie EZ
 :D

Offline Waiter

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 06:13:23 AM »
This doesn't make sense?

You say the right measurement was 4mm greater than the left. This would mean the right had a greater AOA (angle of attack). (On the right wing, the trailing edge hung down farther than the left)

If you added the shims to the right wing (upper outboard bolt) this should have made the right AOA even greater! (On the right wing, the trailing edge would hang down even farther)


I think in this case, the plane would tend to turn left, which is what you got.

My followup question, why are they so different, are the sweep angles and rudder alignment OK?

Waiter
LongEZ-RG   >>    N961EZ
O-320 160hp  >>    MT Constant Speed Prop
F-16 Performance, On a Piper Cub Budget
www.iflyez.com

Offline Bruce Hughes

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 09:44:35 AM »
If you have not taken your wings off for a long time, you may be
shocked when you do.   Several years ago I had to ship my project.
When I took the wings off, one bolt refused to come out.   I had
neglected to coat it with any anti-rust compound.   Won't make that
mistake again.

It is extremely difficult to remove a rusted bolt.   I tried all kinds
of suggestions and none worked.   Finally got it.    :D

Coat your bolts.

Bruce Hughes
Yelm, WA
Longeze N199BH
retired
taught at Maui Community College

Offline Lowlevldevl

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Help needed re: Adding shim washers to increase incidence.
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 03:17:25 AM »
I guess my last post was a little confusing. Let me try again.
My EZ, as I bought it rolled right. Even with full left trim.
Adding 2 washers to the RH upper outboard fixed that.
I haven't measured sweep or rudder alignment so I don't know exactly whats crooked about my plane so that the RH upper outboard bolt needs so many washers. I am pleased however that now I can fly it hands off if I want, I couldn't before. I have measured the distance from the nose back to the wingtips and that distance is identical. Next time I fly it I'll pay more attention to what the ball is doing when trimmed for level flight. That might give me some clues as to where to look next. Unless it looks like being an easy fix though I'll probably just live with it.