night vfr

[Reb Wallace]

I wan't to set up veze for night flying. know what fars require but looking for a source for position lights and other lights already have inst lit.any info would be very helpful can post or email me.

[Jack]

I wan't to set up veze for night flying. know what fars require but looking for a source for position lights and other lights already have inst lit.any info would be very helpful can post or email me.

I wouldn't sweat the position lights, strobes, etc. as much as being full IFR. You don't know your in clouds or IMC until you hit them.  IMO, you and your aircraft need to be current in IMC before any night flying.

Jack

[GlennBob]

Well,

I guess that's one pilots opinion.  I had quite a bit of VFR night flying before I ever got my IFR rating.  It's doubtless safer, . .but far from required.  Many nights are clearer than the days because of the cooling.  Flights are much smoother and of course performance is enhanced because of more dense air mass.  IFR is great, but far from required for night flight.

Clouds can sometimes sneak up on you.  I remember one time when the lights below dissapeared.  Then I knew I had to decend and they reappeared.  This was very infrequent.  Most times you can see the clouds, or see that you can't see and that means clouds.  Best to be up on the weather, but I would not for a minute forsake night VFR for lack of an IFR rating.  And I am IFR rated.

Glennbob

[Drew]

Use these---you will be very happy...

http://www.airplanegear.com/skybright.htm

[Dave in Eugene]

I was told once:

check list for engine out at night...

1) Turn on your landing light.
2) If you don't like what you see,...turn off the landing light...

Also told that if you lose and engine during the day your have a 90% chance of walking away...during the night make that 10%....

What do you guys think fo flying at night?

Dave

[Reb Wallace]

in my travels when the daylight is longer i have no problem with time factors but when the days are shorter i like to get a jump on sunup  and so just want to stay legal fo takeoff before sunup and coming back just after sundown and guess it wouldn't hurt to be seen better in daylight since everyone has a hard time seeing the eze around my home base. thanks for all the helpful info, will try airplane gear.   the rebel

[Barney]

Both my VEZE & RV-3 are equipped for night & IFR; however my personal unbreakable rule for myself is: NO NIGHT SINGLE ENGINE, and NO SINGLE ENGINE IFR, having had multiple engine failures in many types of aircraft, and not the nine lives of a cat.

[allen]

In the military we were taught the value of risk analysis. Some people are uncomfortable driving a car on the freeway. Others are comfortable driving their motorcycle at night on a rain soaked LA freeway. It comes down to how much risk you are comfortable with.

   In the end it entirely depends on the pilot. We all should have our personal minimums and should fastidiously stick to those minimums. Recognize that the odds of an engine out off field landing in a plastic airplane are certainly not in your favor. However, how common are engine out emergencies. Are you willing to accept those odds? Are you willing to accept those odds with a loved one on board? Your child?

   Determine your own comfort level. Then set your own minimums and stick to them. Hoover is comfortable barrel rolling a Commander while pouring a drink. I doubt other pilots, my self included, would be comfortable with that level of risk. But for him, it’s well within his comfort level.

   Personally I cannot see a down side to equipping your plane with lights. As you said we are very hard to see as it is. This places almost the entire burden of collision avoidance on us. I would want to get the odds in my favor and if lights do the trick, then by all means do it. A good friend of mine was killed in a freak midair collision off of Malibu a few years ago so this is a near a dear topic for me.

   My vote is put on the lights. The ones Drew linked to are the ones I had considered, but the plane I ultimately bought already had AC lights installed. For me, VFR night equipped was a mandatory requirement.

[Drew]

At least powerful strobes are a must just to be seen.  Position lights are good for those occasions that you may be butting up next to a pinky recovery.

For the most part (civilian aviation), I don't fly at night.  I make all my plans to fly during the day----and stick to it.  That is a risk factor that I can directly control.

I do fly IFR----but I keep it to simple IFR.  The kind where the FARs say you can't take off or land----but right after takeoff, you are in the clear.  Or if I know that I will be hard IFR for takeoff, will be out of in in half an hour or so, and then have a nice VFR landing.  Whatever the case is, I am pretty choosy about the IFR I fly in.  I also don't like flying in the rain---I avoid as much as possible.

My scariest time IFR (in my Cozy----and before I lived by the above "rules") is when I was flying west through a cold front (stupid) to Chicago.  Flew into a wall of rain---not too bumpy.  And of course, EZs leak.  I remember saying to myself that I hope my all electric cockpit holds up to all this water.  Then poof---my engine monitor craps out---this isn't good---what's next?  I kept bouncing between flight service and my center freq trying to figure out where the dry spots were.  Each call to center was confirming more and more cells popping up around me.  Finally I told center that I was going to divert to the nearest airport---they told me that the nearest was Parkersburg.  I was getting vectors for the approach when they said there was a storm cell over the IAF.  I told them---so give me the approach in the other direction----they said there was a storm cell over that one too.  Ok---how about the field?  No storm cell over the field.  I asked for vectors to the field and minimum vectoring altitude---and that if I could not find a hole, I would shoot backwards up the approach corridor and reshoot the approach.  All was good----found the hole.  Landed in some light rain with clouds all around me.  Wife and daughter went to the terminal as I buttoned up the plane.  Then some "crazy guy" came speeding towards my plane in his pickup truck.  He says "Get in!!"  I say "Why?"  He point to the mountainrange that just disappeared----I complied.  He raced me to the terminal just as the big rain started.  Couldn't see more than 2 ft outside of the terminal.

The big point is---I fly easy IFR---no reason to do "crazy stuff."  There are way more easy IFR opportunities than not.  The IFR license will let you safely not get stuck in a lot of circumstances.  And the hard IFR gets me stuck rarely.  In the above case, I should not have taken off that day.

[Jack]

A

The big point is---I fly easy IFR---no reason to do "crazy stuff."  There are way more easy IFR opportunities than not.  The IFR license will let you safely not get stuck in a lot of circumstances.  And the hard IFR gets me stuck rarely.  In the above case, I should not have taken off that day.

Tis good to see a debate on night flying.  I spent 12 years flying in the Navy and some carrier landings.  Visual cues at night are few and far between and when your moving along at jet landing speeds the water gets close to damn fast.

The US is one of the few countries that allow non IFR pilots to fly at night.  I was somewhat hammered for stating that if you fly at night, you should be capable of full IFR flying.  Tis a damn good reason for that, I have been burned many times at night because you can't see clouds coming at you. Let alone some serious weather changes.  In the Navy we were IFR trained almost from the start.  In fast movers you need the IFR training.

Big hint about night flying. All this night flying gear we have in the air is basically just trying to change the night into day.

Sure you can buzz around your local airport if your real comfy with the weather.  With an EZ flying out a couple of hundred miles doesn't take much time at all.

As for being well lit at night. I go with the big sky theory and hope for the best.  On a very clear night I saw San Francisco from over 220 NM out one night. I was flying  Herc inbound and it was beyond clear.

Right now am in Amsterdamn awaiting further transport to the sandpit.

Cheers;

Jack

[GlennBob]

The times you actually NEED IFR to get somewhere I think fall somewhere below 10%.  But it's great to have that ability when necc.  I also believe, if you think the weather is gonna be hard IFR,  pack it in and wait. Usually it won't be that long. Those times seem to be less than 5 % of the time.  So . ..for the other 95 % of flying, it's well worth it to pack it in that 5% of the time.   I still very much enjoy night flying although I can't say I've done any in an EZ.  Still reworking mine.

I plan to use Navs and strobes to be visible, which again, is better at night.   I guess I'm one of the guys who is comfortable flying at night.  I do try to minimize the risk though.  Always looking for highways just in case.  At night they're harder to find, but I watch for vehicle lights below. Also keep more alt. at night.

Glennbob

[Jack]

T  I guess I'm one of the guys who is comfortable flying at night.  I do try to minimize the risk though.

Glennbob

I am comfy flying in any weather day or night assuming the aircraft is properly equipped.  When I started flying GA aircraft I had to reset my flight limitations because they weren't ready for icing of any type. You really don't want to hit any ice with an EZ. Starting with no pitot heat.

My old Quickie was a pure stay near the airport VFR machine.  With the legs of a Long you can cruise across the country very easily.

Cheers;

Jack

[mikeydidit98]

Traditional technology on lighting is expensive and a technology of the past.  Look at the inexpensive 12V LED strobe systems on Ebay.  Look at Xenon or LED at the same place for landing lights.  Talk to your local car hop-up shop for single xenon assemblies and left-over controlers.  Stick with aviation grade for switches/wiring/breakers, etc.

Good Luck

Mike

[Joe Person]

Current Experimental Operating Limitations (NOTE: you'll need to look at your particular airplane's Op Lims, as they have gone through several iterations over the past 20 years...), per FAA Order 8130.2F, Part 153, states:

" 8   After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with §91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only."

What this means is that for you to operate an Experimental aircraft at night, even though §91.205 is titled, "Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements", you still need to comply with the lighting requirements under this regulation.

The particulars of equipment necessary for Night VFR operations, per §91.205(c), are thusly:


c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment are required:

(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Approved position lights.

(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.

(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.

(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and radio equipment.

(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, that are accessible to the pilot in flight.


So, before you install a set of lights from Chet's Hotrod Shop on your flying Whatchamadigit, you'd better make sure you comply with §91.205(c), which is likely to entail that position and anticollision lights meet the lighting requirements given 14CFR Part 23 (for the size airplanes we fly).  

My two bits,

[Joe Person]

Two more bits:

When the FARs use the term, "approved", unless the term is used in conjunction with an identified person, the term means "Approved by the Administrator" (of the FAA).

Approval by the Administrator can occur if a product has FAA/PMA approval, for example.  It might require additional approval is installed on an airplane, however.

If a homebuilt was equipped for Night VFR, as part of original construction, then that lighting technically becomes approved, as the issuance of the special airworthiness certificate is done by a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR).  The DAR is a Representative of the Administrator, and thus approves as such.  If the Night VFR lighting system was all homebrew, and the DAR approved the airplane thusly, the lighting is approved, even if it does not meet the color, intensity, viewing angles, etc., requirements that are associated with a Part 23 certificated aircraft.

Post-installation of Night VFR lighting (i.e. you decide to equip your Experimental with Night VFR lights after your flight test hours are flown off) would have to comply with §91.205, which requires that the anticollision lighting and the position lights be approved (Approved by the Administrator of the FAA).   How does one do this with homebrew lighting?

Interesting situation.  If one installed the ubiquitous Whelen tip lights (strobe, tail light and position lights), it is probably safely arguable that approved lights, meeting §91.205, are installed.  If homebrew lights are installed, how is one going to demonstrate that the lights meet the "approved" criteria of §91.205?  For Part 23 (type certificated) airplanes, Part 23 has a whole series of lighting requirements applicable to that category of aircraft.

I maintain that if one installs Night VFR lighting AFTER the airplane has its Experimental C of A, the only way to be in compliance with the airplane's operating linitations is to use lighting components that are approved.  Otherwise, one would have to demonstrate to the Administrator (i.e. a DAR) that an homebrew lighting system meets minimum requirements (e.g. Part 23) for lighting systems.

I have a set of "homebrew" strobes I will be installing over this winter, as I like the improved visibility they yield - VariEzes are tough to spot, especially on days when light is dimmed by clouds, haze, etc.  Being that I will not be operating Night VFR in my Eze, there will be no issues associated with whether or not the strobes are approved.

IMO, all Night VFR lighting should meet or exceed the same requirements given in Part 23.  If ya wants to play like a "real" airplane, ya oughta be at least as good...