Hi new to the forum

[SAF_Zoom]

Hello,

I'm just starting my private pilot licence up here in Quebec, Canada and I am very interested in buying a Canard type aircraft. I'm a graduate of the National Institute of Aeronotics near Montreal (1994) so I know quite a bit about aircraft. I have been a avid sim pilot (more thant 5000 hours over the course of a few years... I know I'm still single but...  )

Seriously, I've read a lot about the Long-Ez and think that this design would be great (great cost to value ratio). Things I would like to know about this type though are:

- What is in you guys opinion the best airframe/engine match for this type, and what are typical performance figures for the most popular variants (I know from Microsoft MS9 but what about real life);
- Is a long nose variant preferable to a std one;
- What is preferable, a single under belly bagage pod or a pair of under wing bagage pods;
- What are the mandotary modification that the plane should have gotten to be up to date (service bullatins);
- What about dependable A&Ps that know this type (for inspection purpases) and maintenance (I don't plan on doing mine as I'm no longer in the field of aeronotics);
- What should I expect to pay for a unit that as all of the glass work done and NO engine and avionics (if I decide to buy an uncomplete LongEZ (which I might but I'm leaning heavaly for a flying example)); and
Finally, what about the retractable gear option any though?

Thanks in advance,

BTW sry for the English I'm French...

[SAF_Zoom]

Also, anybody in here knows if its possible to import an incomplete LongEZ from the USA to Canada. I know that since, 2006 one can buy an homebuilt aircraft that has a valid airworthiness certificate and import it to Canada (if it passes the inspection) but other than that I don't know....

Thanks,

[Bruce Hughes]

I am not expert so I did not answer yesterday; I though someone would.

I cannot answer most of your questions but here are a few:

"best airframe/engine match "

A lot of Longeze owners use the Lycoming O320.   I cannot answer for other aircraft.

"Is a long nose variant preferable to a std one"

Burt was not encouraging the longer nose; there is a slight aerodynamic penalty -
I have not flown mine so I don't know.   I had to have a longer nose so I could move
the battery forward to get a safe Cg.

" What is preferable, a single under belly bagage pod or a pair of under wing bagage pods"

I have not heard of an under-the-belly pod.   I doubt if it is possible for aerodynamic reasons;
remember these aircraft are PUSHERS.

"What are the mandotary modification that the plane should have gotten to be up to date (service bullatins"

You have to check with the CPs.

"What about dependable A&Ps that know this type (for inspection purpases) "

Considering your location, the answer would be Ken Miller in New York.
You can ask him about maintenance recommendations.    I assume that you are a CSA
member.   If not, check www.long-ez.com

" What should I expect to pay"

Try to ask David Orr in California.   Check your CSA directory.

"what about the retractable gear option any though?"

I cannot answer that question.   Ask a Berkut or Eracer owner.

Bruce Hughes 

[Drew]

I much preferred the O320 over the O235.  It helps to have a longer nose so that you can move the battery forward to help balance the heavier O320 engine without adding ballast (or at least limiting your ballast).

These airplanes are really not meant to maintain in a hands-off fashion (unless you lived in the San Diego area--and had some good buddies flying canard aircraft there).  If you do not want to get familiar with the plane and Canard Pushers, I would recommend that you steer clear of these aircraft---and get yourself an aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate.


I have not seen a belly mounted pod (except on a rocket racer carrying rocket fuel.  If you did have a belly mounted pod, you would definately need downdraft cooling instead of the standard updraft cooling.  And you would also need to do something innovative with the speedbrake---since that would be in the way.  All of those issues can be overcome---but you will need to role up your sleeves and actually do work.

[Jeffco]

I bought my Long ez from the origanal builder. I had about 700 hours as a private pilot when I purchased her.  I owned it for 10 years and recently sold it due to some financial problems, boy do I miss it.  Mine had the Lycoming 0235 with 115 h.p.  It was great on fuel with a burn of 4.5-5.5 gallons an hour. But the 0320 is the way to go.  They get up to altitude faster, cuize a little faster ( mine was a little slow at about 140 kts) and they are better for flying into and out of high density altitude airports.  If you buy a Long ez be prepared to learn as much as possible about the aircraft. I probably spent as much time working on her as I did flying.  The biggest learning curve for me was the faster approach speeds which for me was anywhere from 80-95 kts.  Now that things are turning around for me a little I may be in the market for another, except my wife really wants a side by side seating aircraft.  Maybe a Cozy?

Good luck

Jeff G.

[Dave in Eugene]

This is all good advice... A Long EZ is a lifestyle... get ready...The other owners are the dividend to the investment...exceptional brain trust....

I have flown a lot of a/c...I shake my head almost every time I fly and say "what a plane!" smooth, stable and effecient. I thought I would  need pods but I don't...My wife and I regularly fly with a tent and all the gear we need for self suffeciency...you have to learn to break down your gear and tuck it hear and there...but it all works great.

Most important I would say is buy the best one you can find...I always buy cheap then pay double over the next few years making it excellent...

I do have an 0-235 and it is amazing for the hp. Everyone says the 0-320 is the way to go ...they are probably right...I can cruise at 150knts at less than 6.5 gph.

Have fun. Stay safe ...they are great a/c

Dave

[Bruce Hughes]

I forgot to mention a point about baggage.    The Varieze has no baggage space
except around the passenger's body.   

The Longeze has a large amount of space on each side in the strakes as well as a
little behind the passenger inside the spar and above the spar.    In addition, many
builders have made a longer nose so there is some room between the battery and
the rudder pedals (I have built a fiberglass partition to prevent that stuff from sliding
toward the rudder pedals)(I also have tiedown straps in the nose area).   If the
pilot is short (I am 5'7") there is considerable room behind the pilot for soft stuff.
I have built a thin back support which sits 2-3" in front of the plans backrest for
the pilot.   There is also a small space (enough for a small plastic box bull of wrenches)
between the feet (that has to be tied in place so is hard to get to)(helps with the Cg)

The smaller Cozy has an entire back seat if you have only 1 passenger.   I went to
OSH one year as a passenger with a tent, sleeping bags, clothes for a week, etc.
in a smaller Cozy.

Not very baggage pods are used by Longeze owners.   I have never seen bods on
a Varieze and don't think it is possible to put pods on them (unless you are an
aeronautical engineer).

A centerline pod on any of them is impossible (in my nonexpert opinion) to do for
aerodynamic reasons.

Bruce Hughes
not an engineer or pilot, yet   

[Joe Person]

Without biasing the decision of VariEze vs. Long-EZ, here is some information about baggage space.

As advertised (per the Rutan Aircraft Factory publications), the Long-EZ has 10 cubic feet of baggage space.  The VariEze has 3 cubic feet of baggage space.  In a VariEze, one can store items inside the centersection spar (as is also the case with the Long-EZ), and along side the passenger.  I carry items in the nose, and under the front and rear thigh supports (my rear thigh support being an enclosed stucture, with a hinged "lid", per my own configuration).

Baggage pods have been used successfully on many VariEzes over the past couple of decades.  Bruce Tifft and Ed Hamlin were early users of these pods on the VariEze.  My "neighbor" at Paine Field has baggage pods for his VariEze.

If you are into more instrumentation (i.e. more whistles and bells in the panel), and need more payload volume, the Long-EZ is the right airplane.  I say "payload volume" because there are plenty of Long-EZs out in the world that, by Rutan's parameters on gross weights, have less weight carrying ability than my VariEze (I can carry about 500 pounds, by the original Rutan numbers), as compared to a heavy (e.g. 1000-pound) Long-EZ, with a Rutan-defined max gross weight of 1425 pounds.  Of course, most Long-EZ operators operate beyond the 1425 max gross limit with no apparent problems.  This is fine, as along as the airplane (at lease here in the US) is placarded for a higher weight limit. 

For any airplane worthy of consideration for purchase, make sure you find a well-crafted, well-integrated airplane that is also as light as possible.

A side comment - a belly-mounted baggage pod would work aerodynamically, but because of the presence of the landing brake panel, and because of the necessity to park either airplane (Long-EZ or VariEze) on the nose, a belly pod would not be a very viable option.

[SAF_Zoom]

Hi guys thanks for the replys, Always a good thing to see an active community.

I'm actually starting to learn about these aircrafts. Always found them very nice. First time I say one (Long EZ) was back in 1994 when I was still in school... one of our teacher was doing the test flights for a builder here in Quebec.

I know that it's going to be a Long EZ and not a Varie EZ.

I still have to check out if I can import an incomplete kit from the US into Canada. Buying one that is completed minus engine and avionics would be great if I can find one. BTW if I do go that route, what engine should I be looking for (exact models.. like which 0320???). Also as any of you have any info on the diesel engine set to come out (diesel EZ or something ). I know that it is being tested but other than that I have no idea... Can one find diesel fuel at most airport???

Thanks for the info on baggage space. I did not realise that a Long EZ had 10cf of baggage space. This is more than what I was expecting. I was under the impression that it was wing pods or close to nothing... Again as I said before I don't know much about this type of aircraft other than their reputation and performance figure.

I noticed that someone mentioned to get one as light as possible. What would be considered light for a plane with no engine and avionics? Also what would be a light for a 215 or 320 variants?

Finally what are trailling edge fences... are those fences like on a mig 15  that prevent the air from deflecting to the outter wing???

New thing I learned...

It seems that I would be better off to find one that as the Roncz Canard instead of the standard Canard wing. How do I tell the two apart???

Also

I'm presently looking at various instrument panel layouts. What is exactly the size of the Long EZ instrument panel?


Thanks again guys,

[go ez]

Your choice but I wouldn't be so quick to discount the Vari Eze. Assess realistically what flying you will be doing, what you can afford ie  what hangarage you have available (easy to trailer it home for a few months & store it in the garage if things get tight financially) , what fuel costs you can stand etc. Bear in mind the future too ref your earning power & costs & direct oil/fuel costs.

A good well built Vari Eze with larger than standard tanks can be/is a joy  and is an extremely efficient aircraft. Pods are an option that can narrow the storage gap between a std Long and a Pod VE.

Trailing edge fences work most on the highly swept wing of the VE to counter spanwise flow & improve climb rate, landing  and take off performance.

Standard canard has external elevator hinges/pivot screws  below the canard whereas the Roncz hinges are flush. Rutan only ever approved the Roncz on the LE. I wouldnt discount a LE just because it has an original GU canard/elevator providing it is well built & contoured well.

Pour over the Canard Pusher and get good advice and assistance from an impartial canard expert because there is a huge amount to learn and many pitfalls but the benefits are equally large.

Good luck.
Regards
Steve

[Drew]

From what I understand, trailing edge fences will also work on a Longez or Cozy---they just have to be a lot bigger than the Varieze trailing edge fences.

[SAF_Zoom]

Well the added internal baggage capacity of the Long EZ is what sold it for me. Because 10cf of baggage space means that I could chose a plane with no external pods.

Also I plan on having the plane hangar at all time. So moving it around is not expected. I have severale airport with 3500' runways near my house.

Finally I have no problem with the present (or expected) ownership and operating cost of a Long EZ.

As mentioned above I'm interest in the exact engine models that can be fitted to a Long EZ and the instrument panel size as I am planing on buying a full dual EFIS setup (with 3 axis auto-pilot) and Garmin Nav/com and Transponder.

[Bruce Hughes]

Hi

If you have definitely decided on the Longeze, you should contact David Orr,
who keeps track of which aircraft are for sale.   949-939-1479 or
canardfinder@worldnet.att.net

Do not ignore the smaller Cozy and the Eracer; those are good airplanes and
have more baggage space than the Longeze.

Are you in the CSA?   You can contact the state representatives for Michigan,
New Hampshire, New York, Illinois, etc.   They may know of aircraft for sale
close to you.    In any case get an EXPERT to check it over.  Best expert in
the northeast is Ken Miller IMHO.   Call him at 516-381-5382.

Bruce Hughes   

[SAF_Zoom]

Thanks for the reply Bruce,

I'm not in the CSA. But I just registered in the EAA. I have looked into the Cozy, but not the E-Racer. I don't think there is a lot of E-Racer out there flying. I have seen one for sale for about 20k (whitout an engine) wich could fit the bill but how does it compare to a Long EZ....

I don't like the stick setup of the Cozy (on the left side). I much prefer having the stick on my right (I'm right handed and have more thant 5000 hours of flight sim under my belt with a right side stick setup) so it would feel a lot more natural to me.

I have looked into the Velocity that as a center stick but these are a bit pricey. I got to limit myself as this is going to be my first plane. Who knows I might find it to small and want to trade up in the futur but for the forseeable future I think the LongEZ will do just fine.

Will try to get in tuch with the above mentioned individual ASAP.

[Drew]

It felt certainly odd with the stick in my left hand when I switched from the Longez to the Cozy.  After the first couple of flights, I got over it.