Long EZ on e-bay

[tfleeman]

I would like to purchase a Long EZ and found one on e-bay. Does anyone know anything about this airplane?

Thanks,

Troy

[tfleeman]

I have been wanting an EZ for a long time and I finally found one that would fit my budget. The fact the the price is so low leeds me to believe that there must me something wrong with this plane. I don't want to buy a plane that is unsafe. It is located in Indianapolis IN. Is there anyone in the area that would inspect it. (for a fee). Also, I would need to get some dual time from someone that has dual controls. I have e-mailed the seller trying to get the name and phone number of the builder. The seller had had the plane for about 4 years but has never flown it. Thanks for any help you can give me.

[Lance Hooley]

Call Robert or Valerie Harris of EZ jets.  They may know it.

http://www.ezjetinc.com

901.475.3686

[NWade]

One more consideration:  The plane doesn't have a huge array of avionics; and only has an O-235 engine... yet the empty weight is listed at almost 900 lbs.  I'm NOT an EZ owner - but that sounds pretty heavy to me.  I've flown in a 615 lb. VariEze, and I was under the impression that the Long should only be 100 to 150 pounds heavier...

Take care,

--Noel

[djrise]

I live in the Indianapolis area. I also have my Long-EZ, I built. Based here. I do not know of this Long-EZ. The price sounds low, But it is not flying. As for the weight. It could be just a bad set of scales. Still not too high if you add starter, alternator, lights, stuff. If you can find out where he is located. I would take a look at it.
DJ Rise
on memberlist.

[Bruce Hughes]

Mr Wade:   Your guess at the right weight for a Longeze is seriously
wrong.   Mine is heavier than it should be, so I KNOW.   I know why
mine is so heavy; my fault.   I won't tell you how much it weighs.

I think the AVERAGE Longeze is over 900 lb.   Everyone lies about their
weight so it is hard to really know.

Bruce Hughes

[Drew]

If I remember right, my longez was around 975 empty.  That included IFR instruments including a Dynon.  Also included was a starter, alternator, O320, and lots of lead (20-50 lbs----sorry, can't remember exactly) to balance all that weight in the back.  Also, lots of lead was due to having a short nose----and me being kind of light.

In my Cozy, I need about 65 lbs of lead (when solo) just to put me on the aft edge of the envelope.

[NWade]

Bruce -

Thanks for the feedback.  

I was referencing CP's #27 and #28.  These are the ones in which Mike & Sally Melville are building their Long-EZ.  They have very complete weights and analyses listed there.

Per the Canard Pusher, a "lightweight" O-235 EZ is supposed to be around 750 lbs. empty.  

Mike & Sally's weighed 880 lbs empty because they "put extra suff on, including full-sized alternator & electric starter systems", installed 17 lbs. of permanent lead ballast in the nose and a heavy-duty battery (in order to allow 100-lb. Sally to solo the plane), and because the two of them combined weigh less than 300 lbs. so they knew they'd be OK on carrying capacity.

So when I see a plane on eBay with an incomplete instrument panel and an empty weight already listed at 885 lbs, I consider that to be heavier than spec.  They may fly just fine - but even if a lot of people have built their Long-EZ's heavier than spec, that's still a result of *their build*...  I'm just going by what Burt wrote and specified; he designed the darned thing!

--Noel the Novice

[Radioflyer]

I've been searching for the "right" LongEz for too long. I've come across many that were heavy. There is one plane in particular that is stunning and with decent panel and one of the most clean engine installs I've seen. It weighs 985 pounds! The owner loves it, babies it,  and I'm sure it flies wonderfully, for him.

I guess it all depends on what particular mix of attributes makes a nice airplane for you. I can easily see some combination of good price, nice finish, Ok engine, easy availability, trust in seller/builder, etc that could rightfully justify buying a heavier ship. Just know that your value system or judgement criteria is different from that promoted in the Canard Pusher. The Canard Pusher had a charter to defend and promote the design. No doubt, a lighter ship will more closely perform like the personal jet fighter it was designed to be. However, not every buyer can get the perfectly light ship.

From what I have gathered, a heavy ship will fly more like a U-Haul than a Ferrari, if they could fly ;-)  The major penalty for weight is climb rate and range. However, my guess is that almost any LongEz will be more thrilling to fly than a Cessna 172. I would like someone else to endorse this idea.

[Bruce Hughes]

Hi Noel and others

Mike Melville is in a class by himself.   NOBODY can build a Longeze
with all of the layers of glass, etc. at less than 880 lb.

If you are a member of CSA, look in the directory and average the
weights.   Then realize that a lot of us (like me) got the aircraft too
heavy trying to get the surface smooth and adding too much West System.
Mine would be 50 lb lighter if I had realized what I was doing to the weight.
 
I have not done a weight and balance since adding the O320.   It was
over 1000 lb with the O235.   It will still fly when it is finished, just not
as well as Burt had designed it.  

Don't believe the BS about 900 lb Longezes.    They are VERY rare.
985 is not bad.

Why are you not in CSA?   Best $25 you will spend.

Bruce Hughes

[Drew]

Adding weight no doubt decreases your climb rate.  But with an O320 on the back end + a passenger, I could get 1500 to 2000 fpm----which is pretty darn good.  Where I really noticed the weight was in how nimble the plane was---primarily in roll and some in pitch.  So...by myself with a light fuel load, the plane was really a little fighter.  Load up with gas and a passenger and you turn me into the truck (plane still climbed very well---just not as nimble on the controls).

The one thing I was kind of hinting at is that there can be a lot of weight tied up in lead.  If you are a heavier person, lead weight comes out (and weight of the aircraft can change by as much as 50 lbs). So you light weight pilots buying from a heavy weight pilot----you may want to take the "light weight" into consideration----you might have to add some.

Finally, if you are really that concerned with the weight, make sure you do a weight/balance (put it on the scales) prior to purchase.  Doing this one step may tell you all kinds of things about the seller---like integrity.  If he is lying about weight, what else is he lying about?  The operating handbook will most likely be different than the dataplate (dataplate is old---POH should be up to date).  As equipment is added, the new equipment can be added/calculated without having to put the plane back on the scales.  When I hung a new engine on----I reweighed it.

[MacGyver]

Hi Noel and others

Mike Melville is in a class by himself.   NOBODY can build a Longeze
with all of the layers of glass, etc. at less than 880 lb. [end quote].



Dunno - Clark Lydick and I built N777CJ back in the early-mid 80's - Weighed 860 pounds, with a huge LORAN (in the fwd end of the right strake), dual Nav-Coms (the old RST kit-builts), essentally a full IFR panel, and all weighed on very well-calibrated scales.  N777CJ was propelled by an O-235-L2C, and would true out at 205 mph at 8000' at full-bore.  We figured the "day VFR" version of N777CJ would have been in the high 700's.  I've done 2 VariEzes myself in the high-500/low 600 pound range.  IT CAN BE DONE, with excellent workmanship (begins with the foam cores), proper laminating techniques (and I've never vacuum-bagged), and attention to EVERY detail on the airplane.  I swore that if I were ever to build a LEZ, it would weigh less than 800 pounds.

[Radioflyer]

Yeah, most Longs are closer to the 900 pound weight. Yes, many don't tell the true weight.  My beef is that there is no standard for what configuration defines a "basic empty weight" in a LongEz. BEWs range from ships in primer with the minimum required FAA equipment to full ifr panels with 5 pound fire extinguishers and heavy conforfoam leather cushions.

My suspicion is that the reason so many LongEzs have been converted to O-320s is because the extra power was necessary to overcome the heavy builds and satisfy the original performance numbers. Some will always have the need for POWER, but given the effort and expense required for the conversion, most were just making up for a heavier ship.

Now the Ez on eBay can be had for $18k with the O-235. If it was an O-320 it would already be gone. If you're looking for an $18-$25k ship, you're not likely to be finding an O-320 ship. So, one lives with it, and probably very happily.

Me, I'll keep looking for a light ship....

[Bruce Hughes]

OK   I apologize; there ARE some in Mike Melville's class.   Clark Lydick
and Joe Person are.

I believe that a MAJOR problem in getting the airplane too heavy is
the attempt to get the surface VERY smooth with West System.  If
I could do it over I would have done less surface work and accepted
a few high or low spots.  

My Longeze also has a longer nose.   Added weight BUT it is a help
in getting the CG right.   Mine was OK without extra lead (other than
inside the battery) when I had the O235 on it.   Have not done the
W&B with the O320.

It has only 1 magneto which may help a little.  

Bruce Hughes

[Jeffco]

I bought my Long ez from the original builder.  It had not flown much in the previous 5 years.  She needed some attention but nothing drastic.  The engine had been pickled and she ran good, but it needed new brake lines, fuel lines, brake pads, tires, a transponder, and the nose gear system replaced.  The paperwork said it weighed 855 lbs, but I added and electric nose gear, transponder, and elt and she now weighs in at 885 lbs. With an 0235 she is a blast to fly.  When you get an airplane that hasn't flown in a while you can expect to spend many hours making it safe. I also had to replace the prop which actually save me some weight.  I have a partner that want's out so we may put the airplane up for sale this summer. We are working a few issues right now, its always something.
Good luck in your search.