Flying qualities of a Long EZ and Cozy

[jhicks]

I couldnt find much on the forums in flying qualities.

I met a guy today who had flown a varieze longeze and velocity and didn't like any of them. He had even built a few for "costumers"
His opinion was that they flew heavy (didnt handle well) and had a high engine resonance throughout the plane.

I have personally not flown any. What are your opinions?
Whats do they fly like??? I havent met an owner yet who didn't love theirs.

Thanks again.
Jamie Hicks

[patchntx]

I suspect that question is different for everyone who flies them. The only way you are going to know is to get in one and go. Where do you live? Perhaps you can join CSA and use the accompanying member list to find someone local to give you a ride. Perhaps a ride request on this forum or another will do the trick.
You post your request on this site or on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators or  http://forum.canardaviation.com/.
Another option is to contact your local EAA which has a high likelihood of having one or two on the roster.

I understand the best way to get good comparisons is to go to the Rough River fly-in and get to know people and their planes and hopefully a few spirit rides to convince you to join the group of folks that call themselves builders.

I rode in a Cozy III and was sold. Fast, quiet, and smooth describe it best. Small, smooth, easy control movements. Really comfortable. If that was the worst ride in a Cozy, it would beat the best ride in a C-172 on any day.

[EZRider]

I picked up a Longez the first of the year and I've put 55 hours on it.  It is the most fun and adrenalin rushing airplane I have ever flown.  It is stable and extremely responsive. I put 23.7 hours on it going to Oshkosh this year and loved every minute of it (except for the 50 min in line to depart Oshkosh).  I wish it had bigger brakes and the approach speeds were a little lower.  I'm about to complete one I have been building for longer than I care to say.  I at least put the heavy duty MATCO brakes on it.
My Website is www.longez209.com. 

[easyrider]

I got my PPL at 68 years old, flew 100 hrs in spam cans, mostly Cessna 150's
In the 1990's I lived in Pleasanton CA. Not far from Livermore . One evening I heard this distinctive sound, looking up I saw this graceful aircraft fly over and I thought "got to find out what it was"
Forward ten years 100 hrs on a new PPL what about checking out that aircraft.
You can read all about it
www.haltonbrat.com
Easyrider

[flyingwaldo]

I couldnt find much on the forums in flying qualities.

I met a guy today who had flown a varieze longeze and velocity and didn't like any of them. He had even built a few for "costumers"
His opinion was that they flew heavy (didnt handle well) and had a high engine resonance throughout the plane.

I have personally not flown any. What are your opinions?
Whats do they fly like??? I havent met an owner yet who didn't love theirs.

Thanks again.
Jamie Hicks

I find it hard to believe that somebody "built a few" canards for costumers (sic) and doesn't like their flying characteristics.  Given the difficulty to build vs. other modern experimentals it sounds like he is pulling your leg or really just worked on a couple dogs.  They can be built poorly and handle the same but most are quite nice.

[jhicks]

i was pretty surprised as well. But he was very against them. Maybe he built some heavy ones. He did go on to say how heavy they were for the size of airplane, and how heavy they flew.

[dkreidel]

Well, mine weighs 934# including oil and headsets. It has an O-320, a starter and is day/night/VFR/IFR. It may have picked up 5-6 # over the years so let's call it 940#.  Show me another 2 place plane that is mildly aerobatic, cruises over 180KTAS, carries 7 hours of fuel, can climb to FL310...and weighs less than 940#

Check the empty weight of an IFR RV-9a - many of them are O-320 powered 

[jhicks]

RV's are pretty hard to beat in their numbers, except for the $$$... ouch. But not far off from a NICE Ez I guess.
I am just a corporate co-pilot with a co-pilot paycheck. Sure wish I could find something I could afford. A nice Varieze would be nice but I am told I am too big.
6'2" 240lbs.

Building I thought would allow me to be doing something airplane related on my time off, but still hesitant. Guess I should save up to buy one in 4-5 years.

Sure wish I could make it to Rough River, but I have to work.

[dsharvey@kaballero.com]

Am an old (no so bold) pilot these days and bought a Long EZ last year after a lifetime of various other airplanes. Up to that point I had thought my Starduster would have been ubeatable. I also thoroughly enjoyed a lot of hours in a Robinson R22. Both were fun, flexible machines that awoke the spirit in me. But I have to say the Long EZ has them beaten. Yes, it takes a few hours of careful  - let's just say cautious - handling experience. Getting the approach/threshold speed is something you need to nail down. But with 40 hours in it under my belt I can honestly say this is the nicest, sweetest handling aircraft I have flow. Sometimes I think it is thinking for me, it's so well "coupled" to the pilot. It is very stable in pitch and roll, and I can understand the stories you hear about pilots dozing off. But the best fun of all is to crank it up, lean it out correctly (I run just ROP), and then see what you can get. I LOVE looking at the GS when the wind's co-operating, and saw 187 mph the other day, and when I got back after an hour I swear I hadn't used more than five gallons of gas. Mine is powered by a plain vanilla Lyc.O-235 by the way.

Yes the brakes are pretty weak, and yes, I think the fuel gauge system is pretty awful. But there are ways to deal with both which just demand a little extra care and forethought.

I realize this is not a technical report but an emotional one. If you want an aircraft that enlivens your life, this is certainly on top of the list.

regards,

Dave Harvey

[easyrider]

Grove brakes are the answer for good brakes on a longEZ
Also front mounted master cylinders.
On the fuel side there is a kit available to put level detectors in the sight gauges
The level detectors drive 2 led lights in the instrument panel at 5 gallons remaining.
When you do an overhaul it is worth considering high comp. pistons
The additional 10 HP gives a useful increase in performance and even better fuel consumption.
Easyrider

[LongEZDaveA]

Very nice report by Dave Harvey above.  Dave - please consider coming to Rough River with your new bird during the weekend of September 27 thru 29th.  Here is a link to the info - http://www.roughriver.org/ Join us if you can.

I agree with most that easyrider posted above.  The high compression pistons really help out if you have an O-235 in your Long.  I give rides to anyone that can physically fit in the back of my Long at Rough River as long as I have my "climb" prop installed.  I have the 9.7:1 Lycoming pistons.

The only thing that I take SLIGHT exception to is the brake choice.  I'm sure it would be better to go with the Grove brakes.  For me, it just isn't worth the trouble or expense to make the conversion to the Groves.  I have the heavy duty Clevelands with forward mounted "Debbie Iwatate" rudder pedal mods and master cylinders.  I would like to give a ride to any Cleveland brake naysayers to see if they wouldn't agree that the HD Clevelands are more than adequate.

My Long is 885# empty (for reference).  My Long and Dicks are a bit on the light side of norm for our engine sizes.  Even if you fly them at gross weight (or a bit over) the handling qualities are very good.  The stall speed, landing speed and runway length requirements are what increase for the heavier birds.  I don't think the fellow that you met is that knowledgeable of the breed.

Maybe you need to call in sick for the RR weekend Jamie!!!

[dsharvey@kaballero.com]

Love to hear from easyrider about the fuel sight gauges.
dsharvey@kaballero.com

[LongEZDaveA]

Here's a good solution for fuel gages - http://nickugolini.com/Website/Fuel%20Probes/Fuel%20Probes%20Installation%20rev9.pdf

[dkreidel]

The fuel indicators mentioned by easyrider were originally developed by Paul Prout and then later manufactured by Cozy guru Vance Atkinson. Jim Sardella developed a modification to Prout's electronics that replaced the red LED's with bi-color LED's that are green until the fuel level reaches 4 gallons and then turn red. This is actually quite handy as the LED's flash red/green/red... as the fuel sloshes around as the fuel level reaches 4 gallons. I've had this system on my Long for 30 years and it still works well. Prout's system also included an illumination system that makes the meniscus in the sight gage appear bright red at night allowing the pilot to see the fuel level ...providing you can turn your neck enough to see the sight gages. 30 years ago this was easy for me; less so now 

I think Vance still builds these sight gages and I have a new, unused set of the original Prout gages if anyone is interested.

[LongEZDaveA]

I googled to find a link for Vance's gages and found an old post of mine on post #11 here - http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/firewall-forward-props-fuel-system/4902-sight-glass-fuel-indicator.html  The email address there is still a good one for Vance.  On August 23rd, he posted that he will be out of touch for three weeks.  Email him after that time for more info on his gages.  The link above has a link that shows how James Redmon did the gage installation in his Grand Champion Berkut.