electrial diagram

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Offline Stanford Zinger

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electrial diagram
« on: September 17, 2011, 02:44:41 PM »
Hi Guys
It really stinks when you buy a Long EZ and don't have much stuff

Can someone please help me with a wireing diagram for the Long EZ
My plane's wires a a total birdsnest.

Thank you
Very Much

Stan

Offline EZPILOT742X

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 04:31:50 PM »
Stan,
Where are you located? I'd be happy to help you out. I've done avionics and aircraft systems wiring professionally and have worked with quite a few different EZ's. Contact me through my personal email and we can figure out what you have going on.

Chris Randall
KWHP, CA
x24thepilot@hotmail.com

Offline av-mech

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 08:09:55 PM »
Stan,

If electrical is not your thing than I would take the offer for professional help.  I have been working with all types of experimental aircraft for more than 20 years and I can tell you that when you don't have any kind of wiring diagram, you might as well tear it all out and start from scratch.  You will drive yourself nuts trying to get it all sorted out.  On the plus side....EZ electrical systems are not usually to difficult.
Arnold Holmes
N80SH
IA 2712249
EAA 519850
TC#4476
Av-Mech.com

Offline Stanford Zinger

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 09:37:44 PM »
Hi Arnold

Its your panel that I want to use ( if that s OK)

Thank you for the pic

I also need the entire wiring diagram for the LONG. My airplane has tons of birds nests and I woul like to redo it
Side panel included

Please feeel free to call me at 631 5461 7757

Thank you and
Best Regards
Stan


Offline av-mech

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 07:01:53 AM »
Stan,

I don't haved a set of Long manuals but if they are like the Vari then there is a basic (suggested) wiring diagram.  Problem is that you don't have any idea if the builder did it that way or not.  Maybe he did, maybe he did not.  Of course if you had a diagram you could at least see if anything is as the original intenet. 

Come on Long flyers let's help Stan out.  Remember when you were looking for answers.........
Arnold Holmes
N80SH
IA 2712249
EAA 519850
TC#4476
Av-Mech.com

Offline BruceHughes

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 12:50:09 PM »
Hi Stan

I wired my Longeze and made mistakes.   It was so bad that my technical advisor gave up and quit
coming around.  I essentially rewired the aircraft after he saw it the last time.   I would not want to
suggest a way to wire it.    I can, however, suggest some thing to NOT do and a few TO DO.

(1) Read all of Nichol's manual twice or more.  I don't know the title or how to get one
but someone on here has that information.  I can go out in the shop and get it for you.

(2) All end connectors must be CLAMPED or crimped on.  My largest cables (to the starter)
were done by a company that, fortunately, wires large boats so they have large, heavy
duty crimpers.   You can buy a smaller one for most work.  The Seal-all crimper ($37.95)
sold by ASSC is NOT a double crimp tool so I DID NOT get one.  Spencer Aircraft is near
me so I bought one from them.  I found that I am not strong enough to use it.   >:(
I found a way to modify it so I can, just barely.   The handles are too short.   Harbor
Freight sells the exact same tool for less.   I do NOT recommend it as the handles are
too short.   Get a good crimper.   The Professional crimper that ASSC sells is $134.95
so there may be better ones, cheaper somewhere.   I don't know but it MUST be a double
crimper for at least 3 sizes of connectors.

(3) I found that you MUST double back the wire at the end or the connector will pull off.
That means that you will have little use for the end connectors with red plastic
covers; the hole is too small for most wires when you double back the wire.  See (4)

(4) If the tables say to use #24 wire, use #20, and the same for # 22 or #20, use
    bigger wire because the wire is going to be vibrating and will break.

(5) Keep ALL ground wires together in a bundle.  I finally had so many wires that I had
to run the bundle down the LEFT side of the fuselage.  That is a problem because you
must NOT interfere with other things like the air brake.   Use spiral wrap.

(6) Keep all 12 V wires in a bundle.  I have at least 8 to 10 of those at the pilot's right
side under the armrest.  Use spiral wrap

(7) Keep all sensor wires in a bundle.  I have at least a dozen of those, probably 15.
     Use spiral wrap.

(8) Realize that you will have MANY more wires than you expected.   You may add more
     later.   Then you have to undo the spiral wrap and it is near impossible to do that.

(9) If you run all of those wires down the right side, you will not have space enough for
    the push rod for the elevators.   Guess how I know that.

(10) Get aviation type end terminals.  These are double clamped to hold the wire to
avoid breaking the wire.   You can also use heat shrink IN ADDITION to the double crimp
end connector to further protect the wire from bending.

(11) Use only Tetzel wire; if it overheats, you will not be exposed to toxic vapors

(12) you will need a good wire-stripper.   Don't get a cheap one; they will not work.

(13) Label your wires at least 3 places so you can troubleshoot later.   It is required
anyway.   That is IN ADDITION to color coding.

(14) ASSC sells 6 colors of wire.   You may need other colors as well and there are companies
that well other colors; I am sorry but I don't have their names.   When I wired mine, they
only had white.    Big PIA.   I finally found a place to get color coded Tefzel wire.

(15) Put a master solenoid in to control ALL 12 V EXCEPT the starter.  If you have current
going through a master solenoid, then a starter solenoid, then the solenoid actually inside
the starter, you have 3 points where heavy current must cross a gap.  You may not get
enough current to start the engine.  I had to eliminate the starter solenoid and run the
starter cable around the master solenoid.  That means I have one solenoid instead of 3
to make/break the connection.  Someday I will change that when I can find a master
solenoid with the ability to carry a heavy current.   I may burn up the starter if the
internal solenoid hangs.   SIGH

(16) The plans system to prevent takeoff with nthe canopy unlatched and landing with
the nose gear up is AWFUL.   You had better use it but you will have a problem when
some part of it is not working correctly.   I spent ENDLESS hours debugging it.    I
finally put a terminal block on the surface of the inside of the fuselage where I can
get to it (inside the nose compartment so I cannot reach it in flight, of course).
EVERY wire in the system runs to that block.  Then I close the canopy (get a friend
to do it and sit there while you do the check) and check voltages with throttle
back vs throttle forward.  Then I put a sawhorse under the fuselage and retract
the nose wheel.  Check voltages with throttle back and forward.  ETC.  If some
part of the system is not working correctly, you can tell.

(17) McMaster-Carr (www.Mcmaster.com) caries some things that you can use.  No
minimum charge.

(18) Be sure that your engine block is grounded to the rest of the electrical system
with a very flexible braid, and heavy enough.  There is a lot of current running
through it, at least during starting.

Bruce Hughes    :)

Offline BruceHughes

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 05:48:26 PM »
Bob Nuckolls wrote "Aeroelectric Connection".

check www.aeroelectric.com or call 316-685-8617

Bruce Hughes    :)

Offline Stanford Zinger

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 09:50:30 PM »
Hi Bruce

Thanks for the info. It's going to go a long (get it) way
It 11:45 PM in New York and I just finished taking out  all the old stuff
What a mess.!!!!!!
I am going to fabricate the 1/8" 2023 T3 new panel to put over the old one. I dicided
that a glass panel  is a good idea.
Thanks for the help

Regards
Stan



Offline av-mech

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 07:20:45 AM »
Stan,

Stick to what you read in the book, it will serve you far better than anything else.
Arnold Holmes
N80SH
IA 2712249
EAA 519850
TC#4476
Av-Mech.com

Offline srothert

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 09:48:13 AM »
Stan,
From a planning perspective, use a spreadsheet to list all of your electrical instruments(avionics, etc).  For each instrument, list each wire and the wire size that the manufacturer recommends.  That will give you an idea of the type and amount of wire to order. I used shielded wire almost exclusively because I had it in stock.

I kept all the antenna coax wires together and ran them along the length of one side of the fuselage.  All the other wires (starter, alternator, temp/pressure senders) were bundled together and ran down the other side.  I think this helped minimize any electrical noise.  Also in the spreadsheet, I indicated the wire bundle in which each wire was located.

Steve Rothert
Albuquerque, NM

Offline av-mech

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 12:14:34 PM »
Stan,

Agreed, I have all of my (two) coax wires running down the left side and all of the other power, siganl,ground wires in a bundle running down the right side.  I only use shielded wire where the manufacturer calls for it.  Otherwise I use MIL-W-22759/16/xx (the xx is your wire size).  Your shielded wire is MIL-C-27500-xx (again wire size).  For coax you can use RG-58 as a last resort but you will be doing good to use RG-400 instead.  It's a little more but worth it in terms of quality.

When you order wire, most likely you will use lot's of 18-20 or 22 gauge wire for insturments, radios, engine sensors, solenoids etc....I would recommend ordering at least 300 ft of the sizes you need most.  My guess would be the 20 and 22 gauge.  You always need more than you think.  See if you can talk Aircraft Spruce into a dealer account and you will get some discounts when you order.

Ring terminals = MS25036-xx     buy the correct crimper to do the job
 red base collars are for 18-22 ga wire
 Blue base collars are for 14-16 ga

Arnold Holmes
N80SH
IA 2712249
EAA 519850
TC#4476
Av-Mech.com

Offline Stanford Zinger

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 07:06:33 PM »
Hi Guys

I just wanteded to thank everyone for their imput

I learned tons of stuff. I ordered my glass panel and electric nose gear today.

I guess the funds with be slim for the next few weeks.

My next step  is to face the existing panel with 1/8" 2023 T 3

and paint the inside with some Zolatone

I'll stay in touch

Thanks Again
Stan




Offline BruceHughes

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2011, 10:03:21 AM »
Hi Stan

I think you never told us where you live.  There are a lot of guys who can help but where are you?  If you join the CSA, you will get a directory so you can determine that yourself.  See the home page of this website for the CSA.   $30 is about the breakeven point for Terry and it is well worth the $30.  The Oct. newsletter probably is ready to mail out or has been mailed.  As a new member, you also get the earlier 2011 newsletters as well.   Terry also has back issues if you want to order; I got a year or two when I joined.

Bruce Hughes   :)

Offline EZPILOT742X

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2011, 07:55:13 PM »
Which glass panel system did you decide to go with?

Offline BruceHughes

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Re: electrial diagram
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 09:33:17 AM »
Hi Stan

As you are essentially starting from scratch on your wiring, consider the possibility that
you probably will go to electronic ignition and remove one magneto.  That gets rid of
one shielded wire but creates a need for one 12 V and one ground wire.    You also
might consider which side of the firewall the EI will be on.  Mine is in a cooler location,
just behind the passenger's head.   That creates a need for 4 sparkplug wires going through
the firewall, as well as wiring through the firewall to the sensor coils on the proximity
of the crankshaft.   The sparkplug and other wires are VERY well protected from the
cut edges of the firewall.

Also there are very inexpensive tachometers available.  My wiring does not have to go
through the firewall but does have to go up front to pilot and copilot.   Actually I
have 2 because the copilot has a partial panel AND control of the throttle, carb heat,
and mixture.

Bruce Hughes   :)