cabin heat

[N210GW]

I would like to know if muff heat is worth trying on a long ez. I have seen several post stating that it was dificult to get the air to flow forward. Dont realy want to deal with the complexity of oil cooler supplied heat. Concidering electric.

Opinions welcome
210GW

[rglos]

Been there done that.

If someone finds a good way, I would like to know.

By the time the air got up front it was not warm enough to make a difference.

[Drew]

The one in my Longez did not work worth a crap so I took it off.  The one in my Cozy works very well.  It is the standard muff used for the cozy.  Basically is aluminum sheet wrapped around the two pipes on the right side and attached with worm clamps.  The outlet takes it to a mixer valve at the firewall.  From the mixer, I can take in cold cowl air right next to the naca or I can take in heated air from the pipes---or whatever mixture I want----or I can shut it off altogether.  The mixer valve is not standard Cozy.  Since I don't have fresh air feeding the muff, I always open a cabin vent whenever I have the heat on.  The heat works great-----without the mixer valve, it was working too good.

[Waiter]

My experience with the heat muff was mostly cold.  I never really had "HEAT" until I installed the oil heat system.

Look at my web site under ARTICLES/OIL HEAT.

www.iflyez.com

Waiter

[Snappy]

For now, I use Gerbing electric (12v) socks and snow pants.  That keeps your feet and legs warm.  A normal jacket and nomex gloves complete the ensemble...........It's hard to be really cold when your feet are warm and toasty.

[Drew]

In my Longez for cold weather flying, I put the chemical heaters in my socks (buy them places like K-mart---in the hunting/fishing section).  I never wore the heated pants.  But if I had the canard taped up, chemical heaters in my socks, jeans shirt and a jacket, I would be pretty good in the cockpit (especially with the sun shining) even though the cabin temp may be in the low 40s.

I agree---heated feet make all the difference in the world.

[deuskid]

<snip>... I can take in cold cowl air right next to the naca or I can take in heated air from the pipes---or whatever mixture I want----or I can shut it off altogether....  

Ok this is too weird...  First I have to re-register [which I did this morn identically to that which I did on the 11th].. and I see posts from the LongEZ thread to which I just responded gone... and then this morning... I asked this question that follows and that post is gone [so I'm posting it again]..:

sorry for the obvious newbie q? but ... what is a naca?

thanks,

John

[Juan Rivera]

I use the gerbing heated clothing also, socks, pants and jacket,  the version made to go under a jacket  is more than enough, the version made to be worn on the outside of your clothing is too bulky. maybe I will get the electric gloves this year.  everything plugs together and a panel mounted controller lets you adjust the temperature.

[Snappy]

I flew for 1.1 hrs today in 14f degrees at the surface. Sunny day, so cockpit temps were 40 - 42.
Gerbing socks, snow pants and flight jacket with nomex gloves and never felt the cold.  At night, I recommend all of the above with heated gloves and you're good.
No need to get the electric jacket and pants because you have no air movement in the cockpit.  The Gerbing equipment is built for motorcycles and is overkill for us EZ driversunless you are operating at the North Pole .

[Drew]

<snip>sorry for the obvious newbie q? but ... what is a naca?<snip>

The "naca" is the submerged inlet used to cool the engine.  Naca style scoops are used in a variety of low drag applications.  My Cozy has 3 Naca scoops---2 small ones for cabin cooling---and 1 large one for the engine.

As an aside, I planned and chased the first Tactical Tomahawk (and hand flew too!---guess that makes me the first Tactical Tomahawk "pilot").  One of the features of the older style Tomahawk was its drop down "P-51" style air inlet.  The new TacToms have submerged Naca inlets----as well as a bunch of other new stuff.

[Kilo42]

My Long has a heater that I think would work great, but it only gets its air from inside the engine compartment.  

Where would be ga ood place to tap into some ram air to get more heated air pushed forward?



Kilo42

[GlennBob]

I cannot speak from experience since I have none, but I'm in the same boat. I want to add heat.  Consider these two items.  Exhaust gas temps are around 1400 degrees ! !   Oil temps are around 350 degrees. Which would you rather use ?   Drawbacks :  If you get an oil leak, you could loose your engine ! !   If you get an exhaust leak, (in the exchanger) you could get carbon  monoxide poisoning.  You can get detectors for this rather inexpensively.  Oil retains heat better than air would going to the front, but you could insulate the hose too.   I'm going to try a heat muff since my wife would never fly with me if it's not comfortable ! !   ( not to mention I like being comfortable too ! !  )

Glennbob

[Drew]

When I have the heat on (muff), I always have a fresh air vent blowing in my face.  Plus I have a carbon monoxide detector too.

[strake99]

I tried a heat muff system on my Long-EZ. It did not work at all. I got next to no warm air up front.
Running a heat muff system for cabin heat in a Long-EZ is difficult for several reasons:

1.  The narrow width of the fuselage restricts the size of ducting that can be used. In my case the largest size usable was 1.25 inch SCAT
2.  SCAT tubing, because of it's irregular internal contours, is a high-drag means of conveying air. A powerful fan or pump is required to overcome the drag and pull or push the air up to the front of the plane
3.  The long air run to the front will result in sigificant heat losses from the warm air en route

If you add the reality of physics that the heat energy capacity of oil is much larger than air, then it is easy to see why it is difficult to get a heat muff system to work in a tandem canard pusher. I intend to fit a nose oil cooler system at the end of this year.

[maprather]

Hello strake99...

Have you ever done any instrumentation work to determine the pressure difference between the cabin and the engine compartment where the inlet to the muff is (on your particular airplane)?  I know you abandoned the effort, but I have heard of a few people that have had some success with the muff system, and I wonder why it works on some planes and not others.  I believe that any leaks around the elevator will raise cabin pressure, possibly above that of the engine comparment.

To do the instrumentation work, you can either employ a water manometer, or an airspeed indicator.  Run a length of tube from the area in the engine compartment where the heat muff is to wherever your instrument is located, and if using the ASI, connect it the pitot input, and leave the static input open (vents to the cabin).  Go fly at various airspeeds, and record the readings from the ASI.  If the heat muff area is actually at higher pressure, then you'll get good readings.  Otherwise, you'll have to connect the pressure line to the static side of the ASI, and then you'll get readings of how much higher the cabin pressure is than the heat muff (and that will positively tell you why the muff doesn't work).

The manometer is nice because it reads plus or minus (+/-) pressure, whereas the ASI only reads plus pressure.  The manometer is cheap, but you may spill water in the cabin...  

Heat muffs work well on front engine airplanes because run is short, and the muffler and SCAT are big, but also because cabin pressure is low compared to ambient, and engine compartment pressures..  That gets the air to flow the right direction.


Regards,

Matt-