tying down, not hangaring an EZ

[louis]

Would be my plan.  I live in the Atlanta, Georgia area.  Does this seem like a mistake given the construction of the EZ type aircraft, or will it do ok?  I currently fly a grumman yankee and tie it down.

[Waiter]

YES and NO;
As far as the elements are concerned, shouldn't be a problem with a well built (and maintained) airplane.  

However, the elements do accelerate wear and tear on the plane, UV, Dust, wind, rain, ice will deterioriate paint, control surfaces, canopies, tires, and any untreated/exposed components.

A major component to the demise will be the lookers, everyone that walks by will touch, feel, bang into, and otherwise break off pieces of the plane. (99 percent of my damage happens at airshows/flyins when my plane is on display) :x

These problem areas are eliminated if the plane is hangared.

Personally, I would never even consider a tie down for the permanent storage of my plane.

Ideally, find another EZ and split the hangar cost. You can normally get two EZ's in  a hangar (even the "T" hangars).

If you must split with a NON - EZ, attempt to arrange the planes so they do NOT move your plane. Major cause of damage, people moving my airplane who are not practiced in the art.

The Hangar I shared in California, we normally had 4 EZs in it, This reduced the cost to $150 each.  And if we had a transit EZ, it would be no problem to stick two more in the hangar to get them out of the weather.

Waiter

[Guest 38]

I had left my plane out at an airshow/fly-in at Merced, CA overnight. Came back the next morning and the fellow parked next to me said that he had chased two kids off my plane who had been using it like a diving board by bouncing on the end of the canard. This was while their parents watched!!!!!
Any builder will consider his EZ as his 'baby' and would not leave it outside at night on a regular basis.    :?

[Louis]

Thanks for your replies, guys.  Very thoughtful.  It would certainly be my intention to find a hangar mate if possible, but I have had little luck with that so far.  I guess a better question for me to ask would be: are EZ's not more delicate or more susceptible to rain or sun than metal aircraft?  I find the risk of tampering and the exposure to the elements acceptable (though obviously not optimum) with my Grumman.

[Dan Patch]

Waiter, as usual, covered most of the bases.  One additional difficulty with a tie-down situation is maintenance.  The ramp is an extra-miserable place to have to work, even here in So. Cal. (Haven't done that since I flew my 40 hours off).  Lots of times you need to pull something apart (like doing an annual, pulling a jug, etc.) that can take way more than one day.  Tied down, your plane sits there exposed or worse.  Even a non-builder can do a lot of maintenance, so a hanger with warmth, shelter, tools, a sturdy door, icebox, etc. makes all the difference in the world.  If you are forced to tie-down your EZ, then you have to pretty much decide to maintain your plane like you do the Yankee - everything gets done by and happens in your local FBO facility.  Even if you go this route, the hanger is a way better place to store flight gear (extra tires, polish, oil, etc.) than the trunk of you car - especially since whatever you want will almost certainly will still be at home - but that's another story!    :shock:

[Anonymous]

No No No
Consider $85 tie down fees and minimum $400 hangar fees. Not all of us have the luxury of hangers or the money. I have tied down in the upper midwest, close to a major city for 20 Years. Work on the palne is not a problem. Go over everything each year with plenty of wax on the paint. When these guys have tied down outside for 20 years then ane only then can they comment with any degree of expertise on what may or may not happen.

The dark in a hangar accelerates the outgassing of the epoxy and weakens it by .oo5% percent per year.

Its nice to live in a five bedroom house in Californna but people survive in mud huts in Africa and don't know the difference- see what I mean.

You can park in a tie down and if I live for another 20 years I will write a paper on the effects. Untill then I'm still collecting data.

Patch and Waiter are not giving you bad information but it should be prefaced with what they know to be true about EZ's specifically be parked outside for long periods.

[louis]

And saving, in 20 years--are you ready for this?

$75,600.00!!  

This is, it seems to me, enough to afford a great deal more care for your aircraft, and, dare I say it, a better aircraft (I know it is more complecated than that in that a nicer acft if more expensive to maintain, time value of money, etc.). Which you can sell at the end of the whole process (unlike hangar rent, which you cannot). Unless it makes a truly massive and irreplacable difference in the shape of the aircraft, or one is in financial condition that renders the money irrelevant, hangaring (at least, alone) seems hard to justify. That is my (completely ignorant) opinion.

I know that people do tie down in california, but wondered if any dared in rainy, colder climates. The previous post verifies that they do, and live 20 years to tell about it. Thanks, guys, for this interesting exchange.

[Waiter]

Please check the fees and size for hangars. I know this varies considerably depending on location and size of hangar.  

At every airport I've been stationed at, I've found a hangar (shared of course) for equal to or less than the amount I would have paid a tie down.

Look at different possibilities. I'm sure Guest and I will agree, If your going to store a plane, its better to do it inside, protected from the issues I described , rather than outside.

Waiter

[Anonymous]

Oh yah, one other thing.  If you carry Hull insurance (I don't), Your rates are cheaper if your in a hangar.

Waiter

[Dan Patch]

No No No
Consider $85 tie down fees and minimum $400 hangar fees...

Well, we pay $105/month rent for the land under the hanger split 3 ways for 3 VEZs = $35/mo near the center of a major city.  We've owned the (then new) $11k hanger outright for 21 years, so at a capital cost of 1%/month (12%/ year, which is high) that's another $110/3 = $37 each of 'lost opportunity cost'.  Add property tax, electricity, insurance etc., etc. and you are still more than a factor of four under Anomymous' "minimum".  Sure, we have an extra good deal (not entirely due to random chance), but Waiter was in the $150/mo range too.  Finding affordable hanger space is a tough nut, no question; but good things can happen if you look hard enough and get a decent break.  


Work on the palne (sic) is not a problem. Go over everything each year with plenty of wax on the paint. When these guys have tied down outside for 20 years then ane only then can they comment with any degree of expertise on what may or may not happen...

Fair point, except we didn't say much about "what may or may not happen".  The value of this forum is to get experience from those who have been there.  I've worked on the ramp.  I've worked in a hanger.  When it's cold, raining or windy, I like the hanger better.  A LOT better.  
 

The dark in a hangar accelerates the outgassing of the epoxy and weakens it by .oo5% percent per year...

You are kidding us just to see if we were paying attention, yes?  And the source of this 'knowledge' is...?  Baking your plane on the ramp with UV reduces outgassing?  Given the variability of hand layup composites, measuring a decline, if any, of 5 parts in 100,000 per year is done how?


Its nice to live in a five bedroom house in Californna (sic) but people survive in mud huts in Africa and don't know the difference- see what I mean...

Not entirely.  Glad I don't live in a mud hut, and sure wish I had five bedrooms.  


You can park in a tie down and if I live for another 20 years I will write a paper on the effects. Untill then I'm still collecting data...

20 more years is a long time to wait.  How about a sneak preview?  Any special considerations for long term tie-down in addition to waxing once a year?  Tricks to keep the bird 'lubricant' out of the rudder hinges.  Keeping the interior dry.  Minimizing brake rotor corrosion, etc.  You obviously have a lot of ramp experience that could be of real value to other canardians that want to or must tie down outside.  


Patch and Waiter are not giving you bad information but it should be prefaced with what they know to be true about EZ's specifically be parked outside for long periods...

Well, I think that we certainly try our best to stick to direct experience, but we can stray off into opinions.  I'll try to do better, but in re-reading my original post, I'm still comfortable with it.

[Anonymous]

Certainly, everyone can agree that hangering is better, all else being equal, but hangaring alone may not be worth the cost.  Sounds like it is also true that all would agree that ezs should not be avoided for the sole reason that the aircraft would be outside (in other words, there is no special problem with having an ez as opposed to a metal skinned "spam can" outside).  True?

[Waiter]

As everyone has stated, Yup, It should be OK to leave it outside for long term.

Would you believe, While I was building it, I was actually entertaining the thought of trailering it to the airport in order to keep my expenses down! :lol:  Sure, its possible. (Thank GOD the internet wasn't as popular, because I know this would have went over real good if I was able to post that thought)

My Mooney sat outside since 1965, My cherokee sat outside since 1976. They needed a paint job more often, and I once had to replace all the plastic (windows) because of UV crazing. I also keep a closer eye on birds, bees and other critters that were looking for shade or a place to stay warm. (Darn snake in the wheel well).

But, like DP,  This is my baby, Its a show winner (at least to me) and I'm going to go the extra step to keep it out of harms way.

If your going to buy an EZ, look for things like good canopy seals (water leaking in to the instrument panel), make sure there are water drain holes in the rudders and in the wing attach fittings. If water gets in here and freezes, your screwed.

Are there drain holes in the forward bottom of the fuselage. Some EZs will leak water around the canard and puddle around the rudder pedals while the plane is sitting on its nose.

Are the brake lines protected from UV (Wheel pants do a good job)

You need good tie downs on the wings (They should be built in) and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have a nose tiedown.

A Cover is a must, Get a good quality with a back lining. These can be had for about $500. You really need the kind that completely covers the fuselage, especially the canard attach area. (helps keep water out)  The more straps, the better. You don't want the cover flopping around loose and wearing off paint or scratching your canopy.

The cover is going to be somewhat sacrificial. Expect to get a new one every few years,  as the old one wears out


This list is applicable to any EZ, regarless if you keep it inside or out.


Waiter

[Dan Patch]

Sounds like it is also true that all would agree that ezs should not be avoided for the sole reason that the aircraft would be outside (in other words, there is no special problem with having an ez as opposed to a metal skinned "spam can" outside)....  

I'd definitely agree with this.  For a VariEze, I'd take special care of the wing attach fittings if parked outside; however, a metal plane is 'one big piece of corrosion prone aluminum'' which seems like it has to be worse than dealing with a localized and well defined area - and we certainly know that metal planes can be left out successfully.    

And speaking of trailering an EZ, I have a good friend who has over 4000 hours on his VariEze and has NEVER had it at an airport.  He can get it loaded/unloaded and together/apart in ~15 min.  I have no clue how he can do it, or could stand to do it for the last ~25 years; but we all do what we have to do to fly these great planes.  (And he does get to bring it home to his warm garage to play with whenever he wants!)    

[Hank Clark]

Louis -
    For what it's worth,  I'm planning on tying my LEZ outside when it's finished.  There simply are no hangars available where I live. (Upstate NY)   I have stored my J-3 Cub outdoors for more than 20 years and it does very well, but it gets the wax job and complete canvas covering, as suggested above.  It is more work, but I have a number of friends who have lost airplanes in hangar collapses due to snow loads, and hangared airplanes are always covered with gritty dust.  The moral of the story is - if you can't get a hangar, look at the bright side!  

Waiter -
    If you catch this post....  have you actaully seen two Longs sharing one T hangar?  I have a friend with a Long which fits very comfortably. I can't envision a second airplane in there.  Lots of room spanwise, but nose under tail, I just can't imagine it.

Hank Clark
N72HM

[Anonymous]

OK Here are some interesting things about tying down for 20 years in the snow, rain, and sun. First, I can't believe how bad my typing was.

I did not mean to attack Patch or Waiter. I look forward to their valuable information. It just seemed that they were relating how good it was that they had the hanger and not directly answering the question. My apologies guys. I would prefer to have a heated/airconditioned spot with full tools, carpeted floors, a guard and live in an airpark but that is not the reality for me.

1) I live close to a large city ( Chicago) and the rates go up the closer you get, It is possible to drive 50 miles to get a $50 hanger But I live convenienetly with 2 miles of my tie down.

2) The brake rotors will get rusty each spring. A little light sanding will cure this for the summer. They last 5-6 years before pitting bad enough.

3) I get some light rust on the bellhorns on the rudders But I have not replaced the horns or the wire spools in 20 years.

4) Surprisingly, nothing inside the cowl or the cockpit. No rust anywhere. That is nothing that a toothbrush or rag won't knock off.

5) water will find it's way inside around the canopy but only in a very heavy rain. It winds up in the nose. The first year I put in drains in the nose and this solved the problem.

6) The sun beats up on the seats. I been throught three sets. I learned to sew so this was solved.

7) I had two covers for the winter,. The water and dust would collect under the cover and grind into the paint. The covers made it worse so a good waxing was done. It was like candy apple
paint but the candy sparkles were dirt imbedded in the paint

I check the wing bolts each spring and have yet to see anything.

9) Birds are the major problem. Plugs must be inserted from April to July.

10. I replaced the rudder cable tubes once. I think the heat expanded the tubes between the the Bid layers that hold the tubes to the side walls. This scalloping stiffened up the cables and the rudders would not spring back.

The plane still looks good afetr the first spring wax. Better than some hangared planes that I guess were not well cared for.

There is a fence around the airport so there is not much of a people problem

These have been both the major and minor problems.

I could put out $150 for a hangar but would be at least a good drive to be outside the chicago area.

Working on the plane. I have to wait for a good day But there are plenty of those.

The biggest problem is I don't fly from December to late March. I don't have a heater. I don't know that a hangar would change this

In conclusion, these are really tough planes and we are all proud of them. Inside or outside there is not much to worry about. Rain, snow hail, -20 degrees and over 103 degrees.

I think I would worry more about South Florida and what those poor guys have to deal with.