Canard Genesis

[Joshua]

99-

I am interested in learning more about Canard purchase, flying, and developing.  I flew Hornets for the Marine Corps and am looking to get a plane of my own.  I have been in love with Canards for as long as I can remember and studied Aerospace engineering in college.  I am most interested in the Berkuts -- I think they suit my fancy best.

I have found a considerable amount of information online, but I need to learn the basics before I begin the seemingly daunting task of keeping a plane.

First -- where does one get a loan for a plane?  Is it something as simple as your typical financial institution like USAA?  Can you get an combined loan that allows for cash to be able to purchase a new avionics suite or other upgrades?

Second -- who offers insurance?  What are insurance rates based on (total pilot hours, plane type, plane hours)?

Third -- what annual fees will I be required to pay for FAA standards?  Are there special requirements for making a plane IFR standardized?  How often are these requirements needing to be met?  Are there more rigorous standards for Experimentals?

I really appreciate any help that anyone can provide.  If there are some good websites that have more information, or answers to questions that I have listed above, I would appreciate it.

Please feel free to PM me if the posts just get lengthy and are better said in an email.  Thanks in advance!

-Joshua

[dr0von0pico]

Joshua-

Semper Fi from a Squid AMDO.  I am currently in the process of buying a Varieze, I do the "acceptance/annual inspection" this weekend.

First- USAA didn't want to do an 'airplane loan' for me, even though it was less than the car loan I had just liquidated, but that may not be everybody's experience.  I just did a small home equity loan, but didn't really borrow all that much, I mostly paid for it with cash I had on hand.  A Berkut is about 10x more expensive than a Varieze, so unless you have a wad of cash you'll have to lay out quite a bit, but I'm sure it won't be a problem if you manage your finances right.

Second- Call Falcon Insurance, if you're an EAA member you'll get a good deal, especially with all those hours flying the Bug.  What squadrons were you in, by the way?

Third- ah, not an expert there, I defer to the wiser graybeards on this board.  Annual fees go no further than an annual inspection I believe.


Andres

[dr0von0pico]

Oh yeah, can't forget to mention that Dave Orr is a great resource for acquiring a good strong plane.  Berkuts are rare but if there's one out there he knows about it.

-Andres

[greg]

Effectively you don't pay the FAA anything. I think there's like a $10 re-registration fee. If you upgrade your plane to IFR, you call up your FSDO and ask for your airworthiness restrictions to be changed. No fee.

Your state, on the other hand, will treat you like a drunken playboy millionaire and want their cut of the purchase price of the airplane under various 'luxury taxes'.

[Waiter]

WELCOME - This is going to be about as much fun as the F-18, especially when you gotta buy the gas!!!

LOANS - Loans are available for experimentals. Look in the ads in EAA magazine and other publications.

I strongly recommend using an Escrow Service for your purchase. (your loan company may require it). Basically, The Escrow company holds everything (money, title, etc) until all conditions of the sale are satisfied. Well defined escrow instructions protect the buyer and seller.

INSURANCE - Your loan company will most certainly require you to have a minimum hull coverage for at least the value of the loan. Plan on about 10% of the stated value as your annual premium. Keep in mind that number seems to vary.

MONEY MONEY MONEY - I did a cost sheet on mine on what it cost to own and operate for the first 2600 hours. You can review this on my web site www.iflyez.com.

Insurance, maybe 1000 - 1500/year.

tie down/hangar, maybe 100 - 500 per month. depends on area and sharing a hangar.

Taxes, If you Live in Calif, Hang on, They sock it to you. Personal property tax, Possessory interest tax, etc. Some states (Ohio) charge an annual license fee (read - tax)

Conditional inspections, Commonly referred to as "The Annual" , depends greatly on your abilities and who is going to perform their work and sign off - I would guess 100 - 1000.

plus normal operating costs, gas, oil, etc. Plan on about 40 per hour for consumables (fuel)

IFR - Generally, your Operating Limitations will define what you can and cannot do. As mentioned, these can be altered by your local FSDO. You need to take a close look at the

 

If you upgrade your plane to IFR, you call up your FSDO and ask for your airworthiness restrictions to be changed.

This may not be necessary, Normally the operating limitations say something to the effect;

"Limited to day VFR only, unless otherwise equipped".

I never understood why this sentence is included in Operating Limitations. obviously, you cannot accept an IFR clearance unless your aircraft is equipped to handle the appropriate procedures, DUH. Anyway, its their rules, so if you want to play, you know the drill.

OH YAH,  F-16 will kick the crap out of the F-18 any day of the week. :-)

Waiter

[Delta Mike]

Waiter of course has the more sensible approach, however, there are more maverick measures that can be employed.

When Delta Mike got the bug he tried going to the bank and was stumped by interest and insurance rates - not to mention the associated paperwork.

Going on-line, he just started filling out applications for 0% interest credit cards (12 month introductory offers), and voila, within a few weeks there was $40K in credit line ready to be spent. The trick is writing the balance transfer checks for the full amounts since they charge 3% or $150 max for balance transfers.

Now of course the credit cards need to be paid down before they kick into the 35% interest rates. The plan is to have flown the newly acquired Long enough by the end of the 12 months to qualify for lower insurance rates, which can then be used to get a better bank loan to pay whatever is left of the credit card premiums. The bank is much easier to deal with when the asset is a flying in-annual in-hand aircraft, versus a prospective unknown aircraft.

One more thing. It is not difficult to set oneself up as a small business. Make a business case that requires commuting to remote spots on short and variable notice. Naturally, you may purchase a business vehicle for the purpose of commuting, or doing aerial photography, etc. The cost of purchasing that business vehicle, as well as vehicle operating costs, are all deductible against the business net income.

Best Wishes,
Delta Mike

[Drew]

Sounds like you got most of your answers. Either EAA or AOPA (or both) have a package to send you about all the stuff you need to buy an airplane (need to be a member).

Make sure you define your mission----and make sure it fits your budget.  I have been flying canard aircraft since 1999 (when I entered Navy TPS).  I started out in a very basic, no-gyro, VFR Longez.  My wife and I only needed the two seats---and it was great on the fuel.  Later with more cash---and tired of being socked in at airports---I converted the plane to IFR.  The limitations that come with the plane should have a statement to the effect that says you can't fly IFR unless so equiped.  The FARs delineate the required IFR equipment.

Later on, I put swapped the Lyc O235 for a O320.  I had the old kind of airworthiness cert that would have basically required me to go get reinspected by the FAA.  So I went to the FSDO to surrender my old cert for the new kind.  The new wording lets you conduct major modifications and then delineates the test period, radius, logbook entry, etc.

Then I had a need for more seats as my family grew by one.  Since I like the canard aircraft, I sold my Longez and bought a Cozy IV.  The good news for me is that my wife and daughter fly with me everywhere.

Still doing modification.

Experimental aviation is kind of a way of life.  Even if you don't build, you will be getting your hands dirty quite often---and it is quite fun.

[Joshua]

Andres, Drew, Mike, Waiter-

Thank you all for your helpful comments.

Defining my requirements -- I am looking for an aircraft to enjoy for sport and also for some cruising.

After a long infatuation and several research projects regarding spin characteristics and wing-drop phenomena of the F/A-18 E/F, I focused my aeronautics study on aeroelasticity and control theory.  I have always wanted to have a plane that I can modify, repair, and upgrade.

I have a strong background in electronics and computer programming though very little experience with composite materials, fabrication, tooling, and laying.  In the past, I have designed parts in a CAD program and delivered them to a machining shop.

I very much want to invest a considerable amount in a sophisticated IFR avionics suite.  In love with my Hornet-style glass cockpit, reverting to steam gauges may make a Nintendo-generation kid like me cringe.  Still, I am prepared to make certain concessions for a limited time for financial reasons.

I like the Garmin avionics and am prepared to pay for it.  The Dynon MFDs seem quite nice, though I haven't found if the ADI is rated.

I want a plane that has range and with the IFR capability my worst Zeller-IMC-NORDO nightmares may be averted.  Mostly, I just want more freedom to land where and when I choose.  VFR is just not something I am comfortable with unless I have a radar--from what I hear these are not cheap though perhaps may form a more permanent solution for the canard balance.

I like the Berkuts because they are fast, but mostly I just find them sexy.  I saw an add on the Classifieds posted off the EZ Squadron website that said there was a kit for sale for $75k.  I am going to look into that a bit more.  I will also contact Dave Orr for more information.

I know this may also sound crazy, but has anyone heard of someone installing a small jet engine in an EZ?  Say something like one of the Williams engines?  Just curious.

I am very much prepared for the long work over time and investment of many hours of work.  I am just breaking into the civillian sector and have had my ratings transferred over.  I am going to try to find a club where I can start getting some hours in canards or an EZ if one is leased to a club, or the like.

Thanks again -- please keep the advice coming.

-Joshua

[GlennBob]

If you think you are going to " get some time " in flying canards by flying one that is on leaseback  . . .well . . .just my opinon, . . .but I think you're dreaming.  Aint no one gonna build a plane and then let it out for a liability bulls eye ! ! !  Git my point ?  

On the jet, . . .I have heard of that, but I have to leave it there.

You might find a cozy driver ( four place, side by side seating ) who might let you get some dual with him, but it might be tough to build time in a canard short of buying one.   Believe me, .. .I tried.

Composite work is not hard.  If you've ever done body work on a car,  or worked with fiberglass, . .it's a short learning curve.  Not too tough,  but alot of fun.  You kin make about anything ! !   Look at all the stuff these guys come up with.  You should especially check out Bill James of Texas's  creativity.  He'll absolutely blow your mind ! !

Welcome to the canard lovers club ! !

Glennbob

[Delta Mike]

There is some really slick stuff on custom glass cockpits on the Team Rocket site:
www.f1-rocketboy.com/efis.htm

They are putting jets on canards over at EZJet (real nice people to talk to as well):
www.ezjetinc.com

Must reading for aircraft electrical systems is the AeroElectric Connection manual:
www.aeroelectric.com

Happy hangar flying for now.

[Drew]

Glass wise, I am installing a Bluemountain EFIS (the smaller one---but gen 4).  And I have a Dynon engine monitor.  Dynon and BM don't need to be "certified" to put in your aircraft.  I share your thoughts about being IFR and having stuff crap out on you.  My BM has an independent battery backup and I have a separate solid state T/B indicator as well as a separate electric attitude indicator.

If you go to the bluemountain site, you can see the owners CozyIII which has a jet in it.

Experimental airplanes can't be rented.  The only way you will fly one is to get a ride with someone, build one, or buy one.

I used to work over at VX-30 (F-14 Military IPT lead/Projects IPT lead---sort of in your neck of the woods.

Experimental airplanes can't be rented.  The only way you will fly one is to get a ride with someone, build one, or buy one.

Just to clarify one point here, experimental aircraft can be rented.  The EAA has an exemption that allows the rental of an amateur built experimental aircraft for the purposes of pilot transistion training.

See:

http://members.eaa.org/home/govt/exemptions/training_faq.asp

Rick Pellicciotti
Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.

P.S. Take a look at the Grand Rapids EFIS stuff as well.  It is very nice and their support is second to none.

[GlennBob]

Experimental airplanes can't be rented. The only way you will fly one is to get a ride with someone, build one, or buy one.

Hmmmmmmmm . . .just one more correction . . . .The EAA might have an exemption, . . .but it doesn't matter . . .they don't have any authority to grant an exemption . . . but . . . .the FAA might ! !   They gots all da power ! ! !

Glennbob

[Drew]

Yeah---I know about the exemption---just did not really want to bring it up since the exemption is not really the essence of what he was trying to do (just rent canard airplanes like you would a cessna).

But---good comments---'cause its true!

[JonC]

Strictly by the letter of 14 CFR 91.319(f) you cannot lease an experimental aircraft except for one purpose.... You can only lease one to use as a tow plane for a glider.

However, by 14 CFR 91.319(e)(2) you CAN compensate someone for training you in YOUR aircraft.... if the airplane is a light-sport aircraft.