VariEze hard fuel valve

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Offline Gilbert DRIEUX

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« on: June 16, 2005, 03:10:20 AM »
The standard fuel valve is incredibly Hard to turn.
I feel that dangerous, as I can't realy imagine to turn it safely while flying.
What can be the reason ? (I remember I proceed to tanks' capacities gauging, galon after galon, with car gas w/o running the engine  :wink: . Now using standard 100LL, can that be a reason ?)
Aluminium tube from front seat to the valve is free.
I know how to "open" the valve. Something to do there, inside ?

Shall I concidere to change this fuel system to the LongEze one? with a larger handel between the pilot knees ? I'll feel resotred to confidence...
If so, where to get drawings or schema and LE fuel valve part N° ?

Regards, and thanks to you all.

PS : Fly-testing FWMPZ is far hoter than FWWOW !!!  :oops:
Gilbert
VE N° 1736
F-PMPZ
Lyc O-235 C2C
@ LFPK / France

Anonymous

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 01:07:47 PM »
The standard fuel valve is incredibly Hard to turn.
I feel that dangerous,...  Something to do there, inside ?

Absolutely, definitely dangerous!  

My feelings about the fuel valve have evolved over the years.  Initially I flew my VariEze with the original, tapered brass spool, valve (Weatherhead or Imperial, I forget which).  It wasn't too bad, I thought, because you didn't normally have to use it except when you are safely on the ground.  (But the whole point of the reserve tank is to be able to count on using it IN THE AIR in an emergency.)  So, for a number of years I took the valve apart every few years when it started to get hard to operate and lubed it up with a special silicone grease (which resists being dissolved by fuel).  

That worked, but ultimately (~15 years ago?) I realized that fooling around with a part that could reasonably be labeled "not airworthy" - in the fuel system no less - was NOT smart.  I replaced it with the Allen valve and have been completely satisfied with my fuel system since - I should have made the switch as soon as the Allen valve modification was discussed/available.  My current thinking is that investing in the best fuel valve (and everything else in the fuel system, too) is a "must do" and cheap insurance!


Shall I concidere to change this fuel system to the LongEze one?...

I suppose that you could, but I think that relatively few VariEze fuel systems have been converted to a LEZ-like configuration - but I could be wrong.  Properly built, maintained and used (both fuel caps on!), the plans fuel system on the VariEze works well and has some advantages (and some disadvantages) in comparison to the LEZ system - it is your judgment call on what is most important/safest.  I have the impression that the LEZ guys have been more aggressive in making fuel system changes (more variety in engine choices?) - Some have been improvements, others... were NOT.  

Bottom line is that you must have full confidence in your fuel system - end-to-end.  Experimenting with non-stock and/or unproven fuel system ideas has bitten a number of pilots, big time.  These 'simple' systems can turn out to have some surprisingly complex/unexpected failure modes - and folks keep discovering/rediscovering them at a depressing rate.

Offline Dan Patch

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2005, 01:13:39 PM »
Bottom line is that you must have full confidence in your fuel system - end-to-end...

Oops! Forgot to log in before posting.  I think that it should be silicon not silicone, too?  Never can keep the two straight.   :)
DeltaPop
VariEze N862DP
(@1970 hrs)

Offline Gilbert DRIEUX

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2005, 04:14:52 PM »
Thanks to you Dan,
Loged or not............

My purpose was not exactly to change VE fuel system to total LEz system, but to replace the Weatherhead valve, and perhaps the localisation.
I'll consider your sugestion and 'll lubed the valve up with a special silcon grease. Just need to find some special grease here...........

You change your valve to an ALLEN one. Is it the 6S122 model ? Spruce P/N 05-29500.
Pinted in catalog :
>>They are a direct, bolt-in replacement for Weatherhead and other fuel valves<<.
Is that thrue ? and easy to do ?...........

Regards,
Thank you for your attention.

To-morrow, 'll have a full day tour at Paris Air Show.
Gilbert
VE N° 1736
F-PMPZ
Lyc O-235 C2C
@ LFPK / France

Offline Dan Patch

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2005, 05:52:49 PM »
My purpose was not exactly to change VE fuel system to total LEz system, but to replace the Weatherhead valve, and perhaps the localisation...

Personally, I don't have a problem with the firewall location for the fuel valve SO LONG AS IT TURNS FREELY!  If it doesn't, you have the chance of overloading the Al tube/U-Joint system - fix it!  Worst case is something breaking between positions, leaving you screwed.  But I don't fly with a stiff valve, test it before launching as part of the starting process, and never move it in the air, short of a true emergency; so I consider the breakage risk essentially nill when it counts - in the air.  

Part of my thinking is that I'm not attracted by the idea of running fuel forward and then back inside the plane.  I guess my objection is more along the lines of the extra flow distance (and the weight of extra fuel line) rather than running fuel inside the plane, per se, which is what seems to bother some other pilots the most.  A big part of my concern is the gravity head nature of VEZ system where one doesn't want to introduce any extra, needless pressure losses.  A fuel pump sucking on a long, down-and-back fuel line system presents potential problems of another sort (solvable, of course).


I'll consider your sugestion and 'll lubed the valve up with a special silcon grease. Just need to find some special grease here...........

There is some special grease made just for this fuel valve application (super expensive stuff I've heard), but I can't give you a source because at that time I actually used some ultra-high vacuum silicon grease that I happened to have from another application.  Subsequently, I bought some O-ring grease (for the fuel caps) that is less viscous, but I suspect generally similar to the grease that I used; although I never used it on a fuel valve.  One thing about using this stuff is you always run a risk of getting a loose chunk of it in the lines or a port unless you use it very sparingly - since it won't dissolve in the fuel.  Basically, I don't like the general concept of having to lube up the fuel valve for a number of reasons (one, using it tends not to get done often enough; two is the debris issue; etc.).  


You change your valve to an ALLEN one. Is it the 6S122 model ? Spruce P/N 05-29500.  >>They are a direct, bolt-in replacement for Weatherhead and other fuel valves<<.  Is that thrue ? and easy to do ?...........

My Allen valve was almost an exact replacement for the Weatherhead except for a slightly different stem length.  No big deal.  Size, port locations, and mounting bolt holes were the same.  "Pushyhog" here on the forum can chime about the correct part number and what he did, since he has just finished working through this whole fuel-valve issue with some off-forum input from me.  


To-morrow, 'll have a full day tour at Paris Air Show...

Enjoy :D
Best, DeltaPop
DeltaPop
VariEze N862DP
(@1970 hrs)

pushyhog

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chime-n-in with the blessing
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2005, 08:48:20 PM »
the andair people of england have saved my vari fuel system. it's the most wonderful thing i have seen, i bought the fuel selector,air-oil seperator and the andair gascolator. NOT CHEAP but the best. if u will call my cell 910 257 7322 with pen and paper i will tell u what u need.

very easy to redo the whole system including plumbing header and wing tanks and fuel totalizer and fire hose to carb.

some fittings from spruce catalog, had to fab one bracket and spray it black.

cirrus,lancair,van's RV 's,spruce catalog are all dealers of ANDAIR. FOR INSTANCE,call up  VERNE @ LANCAIR, HE'LL SHIP STUFF RITE TO YOU!
but call me, i am there.

Offline Gilbert DRIEUX

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2005, 10:55:59 PM »
Hi Pushyhog,
Before I'll call you, What is your local time ? Europe ?
I'm CET = GMT+2 at Paris/France.
Is it OK now 4:57 GMT ?

[/b]What is your international country code ? 44 = England ?

Thanks to Dan.
My only purpose is to fix, as safely and easily as possible, this "hard valve" issue. I want it to turn freedly. In my mind, valve location change was just a possibility to facilitate force from wrist, not a goal. Same as you, I don't like the idea of fuel lines running front/back along the plane.
Gilbert
VE N° 1736
F-PMPZ
Lyc O-235 C2C
@ LFPK / France

Offline Gilbert DRIEUX

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2005, 12:01:27 AM »
Thank you.
I'll order FS20x2-F and one universal joint at ANDAIR Ltd.
Gilbert
VE N° 1736
F-PMPZ
Lyc O-235 C2C
@ LFPK / France

Offline Dan Patch

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VariEze hard fuel valve
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2005, 10:36:13 AM »
Thanks to Dan.
My only purpose is to fix, as safely and easily as possible, this "hard valve" issue. I want it to turn freedly. In my mind, valve location change was just a possibility to facilitate force from wrist, not a goal...

Gilbert,
My pleasure.   :)
We're reading from the same page on this.  Frankly, if a valve is so hard to turn that there is a risk of breaking something, IMHO, moving it forward so you can apply more force (i.e., break the handle off directly?) seems like a pretty sketchy "fix".  Blue skies!  DP
DeltaPop
VariEze N862DP
(@1970 hrs)