Front mounted master cylinders

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Offline Super-EZE

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Front mounted master cylinders
« on: July 01, 2012, 08:05:59 PM »
Could someone who has front mounted MATCO MC-4 masters on a LE tell me how much rudder travel do you have before the piston of the MATCO MC-4 is engaged? Then how much more travel do you have before the brakes are fully engaged.

Thanks!

Offline Rick Hall

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 10:53:43 PM »
Super:

I don't know if this will help or not, but since there's been no replies... just yet.

The Cozy (my build) should be similar. On mine, the M/C is mounted so the M/C has a 2.5::1 mechanical advantage at the foot rest part of the pedal.

The M/C connection to the pedal arm has 1/2" of 'slot' (free play) before the M/C is applied. And this can be adjusted in several ways.

The rudder cable is attached to the pedal at approximately the 2::1 location. This infers 1" of rudder cable travel before the M/C is activated. Keep in mind I flunked geometry, many times...

I do know that once I feel contact/pressure with the M/C, further pedal travel is no more than 1/2" under the ball of my foot. Front mount cylinders in both cases. And this is in friends Cozy/Long on the ramp only, static if you will (I'm not flying yet).

Rick
Cozy MK-IV, plans #1477. 90% done, 70% to go!
Currently working on the canopy, side windows just installed.
My hobby at: http://zggtr.org My plane at: http://cozy.zggtr.org/

Offline Super-EZE

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 03:47:09 PM »
Rick,

Thanks, this helps.

Offline flyingwaldo

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 09:18:44 AM »
If that travel is in the actual rudder movement I think 1" is way too little.  If it means 1" of cable travel then maybe there could be sufficient rudder deflection depending on the leverage.  And if there is still a lot more travel (and deflection) before the brakes are engaged it might be ok.

This is a touchy subject for me.  My plane left a canard shop, after a "thorough" inspection with about an inch of deflection and in crosswinds I landed with the brakes on several times, finally breaking the nose strut in a PIO after a gust blew me off the runway just before touchdown.  I should have gone around but didn't know any better with all of 5 hours in the plane and 250 total in spam cans.  A more observant expert told me to check the rigging where I found I had about an inch of rudder deflection before brakes were engaged. 

Re rigged in a couple minutes (and a couple thousand dollars of repairs, airfares, hotels, etc. later) to take the slack out of the rudder cables, as it should have been all along, and now have 3" plus of rudder deflection before brakes and 550 trouble free hours. 

Be careful with advice when the words "not flying yet" are included, they mean well but......
Just my 2 cents.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 03:25:57 PM by flyingwaldo »

Offline dorr

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 11:04:52 PM »
The hidden belcranks make for even more precise concerns.  The Berkut method is to add a pair of springs in the rudder cable run - if you reach full rudder you cannot then run out of brakes...you might look at rudder cable area within www.Berkut13.com Redmon's website.

Beagle
David A.C.Orr
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www.canardfinder.com

Offline Super-EZE

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2012, 10:29:48 AM »
At this point I am just looking for a rough estimate on how long to make the slot in the brake pedal that allows travel before brake actuation. There is still quite a lot of adjustment in the system.

Offline Super-EZE

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Re: Front mounted master cylinders
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2012, 06:44:39 PM »
Where the three holes are is going to be the slot.