LongEZ questions

[Will H]

Hi, I'm 16 years old and starting towards my pilots license, i am planning on building a homebuilt for my senior project and would love to build a varieze or longEZ, my only problem being cost. I was wondering if anyone could help me out with what route you recommend taking and a rough estimate on the cost,
          Thanks -Will

[Joe Person]

If your advisers (school) allow a student to start a Senior Project before your senior year, start now.

Some thoughts:

1.  For cost, the VariEze is less expensive - I have built a Vari for less than $12,000, which entailed scrounging, making as many of the metal parts myself as possible, Building up an O-200 engine, etc.

2.  Plan on a couple of years to do it "right" - there are airplanes that are flat-out "slapped & dashed" together, and as such, as not as safe (short term, or long term) as they should be.

As "easy" as the VariEze is to build, and as apparently "quick" they are to build, the still take time (1700 - 2000 man-hours, from my experience in building 2 VariEzes)  Of all the pre-fabricated parts, the wing fittings pose the greatest challenge to get - either you make them yourself (machine shop requirement here), or you find a set that have never been used.

FWIW, I enclose a narrative below from Canard Pusher (newsletter) # 23, Page 4 (January, 1980):

Stuart Kingman - "After three years of blood, sweat, and tears I had my
own airplane! I taxi tested for two or three days just to get the feel
of the airplane, and also because I was scared, and rightfully so after
reading of all those experienced pilots getting killed in their EZs!
All of my experience rested on 150 hours in a Cessna 150 and one hour
in a Grumman TR-2. After the taxi tests, my Dad took out a $10,000
life insurance policy for me, and I lifted N222SK off the pavement and
around the pattern! The feeling I had during those few moments were
completely void of any fear - it was the most fun I had ever had! The
plane flew as if it had been flying for years. Absolutely no problems
whatsoever. What surprised me even more was the landing. I had never
flown an airplane with a stick, much less a side stick! That first
landing was the smoothest landing I've ever made. Every other landing
since then has also been smooth too. N222SK cruises at a true airspeed
of 180 mph at 6000 ft and 75% throttle. The engine is a Continental C-
90-12F turning a Bruce Tifft prop. Empty weight is 597 lb. I am
extremely pleased with the airplane. I have never flown a plane even
similar to it. Like I've said many times before, it flies like a
airplane should". Stuart is 18 yr old.


You may be able to track down Stuart Kingman via the landings.com database, for what it is worth, and who knows, you might be able to get some first-hand information from someone who started building a Varieze when he was about your age.

The VariEze is a fine airplane, and in my book, still offers one of the best values for performance vs. cost to build.

Best Regards,

-Joe Person
EAA Tech Counselor 4418
VariEze N79JN
Boithell, WA  (KPAE)

[Will H]

Thank you Joe, i know the Senior project coordinator pretty well, being a teacher and coach of mine for 3 years and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't mind if i started early. I was also wondering what some of the major differences are between the Varieze and the LongEZ, I've read about the 2 inches of shoulder room, but room doesn't concern me to much being 6' 135lb. Also, what is typically the first purchase of the project? My neighbor is a professional metal worker so that could be an advantage, and my dad knows a thing or two about engines. I figure if i start saving now ill have around the 12,000 dollar area so a Vari may be the way to go.

[dorr]

The cheapest way to build these things is to find a mostly done project with materials costs from before you were born.

I doubt you could build a Varieze for under $15,000, frankly.    Joe's right about an O-200 being a good choice - however, some people mistakenly believe auto engines are cheaper - they are not, and the build time and success rate is clearly down, final value down...

I built my Long EZ for $18,000 (including a free engine) in 1988 and have a blurb with the costs per chapter that might help you plan when you need the money - not much at first.

If you want a list of nearby planes to sit in, just get in touch.

David Orr canardfinder@att.net

[Will H]

Thanks for the information David, my dad was wondering about car engines (he was a mechanic for eons) but if building up an O-200 can be done within a similar price range that would be the route to take.
What are some of the other engine options i could take? and also where do i look for people selling kits or started projects? Also any suggestions on where to learn a thing or two about the process? I have a lot of time and would like to learn as much as possible.

[A. Bruce Hughes]

Hi Will

There are a few canards flying on auto engines.   However MANY people who have
tried auto engines have put massive amounts of time into the engine and then given
up.   Auto engines may be too heavy and that influences the weight and balance
disasterously.   

Listen to the people who are experts:  Joe Person and David Orr are.

Remember that you really need a log of your work.   It is much harder to create one
from old sales slips, notes on slips of paper, etc.   I now put everything in my computer
so I have a log but I did not start out that way.   A log is required by the FAA so
eventually you have to make one.   Start out keeping one.

A partially finished project will end up being cheaper, probably, but it may weigh too
much and therefore be a "dog".  You also don't know if the original builder did all of
the layups correctly.   Some may be dangerous.

Getting plans is sometimes a problem.   See David Orr on that.

Bruce Hughes   

[A. Bruce Hughes]

Hi again

If you can find a partially finished project that looks good, you can weigh the parts.
Be careful to use accurate scales.   The old way was to use a set of 3 bathroom scales
with 2 "multiplyers" made of steel.   I don't think those are very accurate.    Some
EAA clubs and the auto racing guys have electronic scales which are VERY accurate.
Either an auto racing club or an EAA club will be glad to help.    The auto scales are
a set of 4 and you just do not use one of them.   When you get the numbers tell
Joe Person or other varieze builders: the surface treatment and paint adds weight;
the engine weight is pretty well known if the project lacks an engine.

Bruce Hughes   

[flyingwaldo]

What happened to the theory that if you start a Rutan project following the plans, you'll have learned the skills needed when it's time to do more important construction?  I thought that was important to the quality and safety of later critical chapter work?

[Will H]

If i can find a partial project for the right price i may go that route, but i believe that flyingwaldo is right, i should probably learn as many of the building skills as i can, right now i have an abundance of time so if it took long that would be alright. If i decide to go with a build from plans, is that all i purchase? are the materials needed to build still available outside of kits?

[A. Bruce Hughes]

BTW Will, plans are usually hard to get.   You can check with David Orr, look on
www.barnstormers.com (or net?) (or org?).    Sometimes they are on ebay but
are expensive there.

BTW#2  If you will tell us where your are (city and state) I can tell you of some
Varieze builders and/or pilots near you.   They should be abler to give you some
information and might even track down some plans.   

BTW#3  If you find a project. it may be barely started but you can get a lot of
materials such as foam (there are 5 types in the Longeze; I don't know about the
Varieze), glass, epoxy, etc.   Be careful about the fiberglass; it should never get
wet which ruins it completely.    Good deals are often really bad deals......

Bruce Hughes   

[Will H]

Alright, i am in White Salmon, Washington (which is about 60 mi east of portland, oregon). I know my friends uncle built a longEZ but from what i understand he sold it. If i find any partial projects i will definitely have someone else check it out first, i know nothing about the fiberglass construction or what to look for. Any EZ i can get a look at would be a great help! Thanks for the help so far everyone!

[Bob Holliston]

I also live in White Salmon, Wa. I'm finishing up my 2nd. Longez. There are 3 active ez's in the area. Give me a call. 493-2961 Bob