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Messages - flyoz

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16
Thanks Cloudman and all the others for your valid comments !
The plans i have are the original detail of the push pull nose gear , but it had no compression spring . I suppose it could be fitted( i like that aspect ) but i have decided to use the standard geared over center mechanism as the simplest and most reliable and incorporates the compression spring .
I am also going to eliminate the winglets as most have done ( i bet they make interesting bookends ! )Others have reduced lower winglets and i suppose thats a compromise between the long Ez types and no lower winglets .
Its good to know that it can be air started - that was the aspect of "no starter "which had me most concerned . Anyway to keep it simple i intend to go without a starter but you are right Cloudman - we are humans and do make mistakes .
I need to read more to understand the fuel system better ( i have been reading through the owners manual ).
Flyoz

17
Thanks for a really useful discussion not only for myself but for others out there too .
Its adding to my notes .
Hand propping is an emotive issue i suppose (I have never hand propped an aircraft ).
I have never had an engine stop on me except on finals when the idle was not set right . I guess as a human you want that ability to actually be able to try and restart if you have to . But 40 Lbs is a lot of weight ... The idea of "dead" locking the brakes by putting holes in the discs is unique and practical so that resolves the runaway issue ( safety ) . Hand starting a pusher is much safer and hand cranking does give you some idea of the compression as discussed . I guess you have to live with the levels of simplicity you want . It breaks down into some basic issues .....
 If i hand start i have some control of who is close to the prop , i can see smoke or listen for some irregular noises
If the brakes are "dead" locked like Bill suggests then that resolves the runaway issue , makes hand propping less of an issue .
If the engine stops in flight i am unsure if it can be air started ? and leading on to that is the issue of fuel systems . I like the fuel system where the last available fuel is in the lower seat / tank so if you have fuel your engine should not stop . On long decents and only fuel in the seat/ sump tank is it possible to have too little fuel pressure ?
During hand propping is the fuel able to get to the engine when its on its nose ? Do you use or have a boost pump for the start sequence ?
I suppose the nosewheel is another item which has a higher chance of error . The nosewheel window goes some way to remind the pilot of its status . I guess you have to be careful with your checks but i understand the possibility of  human error. From what i can understand the mechanical nosewheel system is rugged provided the gearing is not actually used to hold the nosewheel but that it is capable of going fully over center for locking . The overcenter cam taking the landing loads .
What about fuel systems ? Do you place the filler caps so the aircraft can be on its nose during filling and still be filled to its max ? Some have a fuel drain close to the leading edge of the strake to check the fuel when the aircraft is in the nosedown position .
Flyoz

18
Cloudman
Thanks for the info . It seems that your Varieze is just what you want .
The one overiding factor in my research is most people who have built a Varieze
with simplicity in mind have not been dissappointed . I am going to try to build as simply
as possible - i am progressing slowly - changing the drawings to CAD format and metric ( although i have retained the actual Inch dimensions )
Some would say redrawing in CAD is lost time but it allows me to understand the construction method more clearly i think .
What do you think of hand propping ?
Would you say an electric noselift is too much complication and a waste of time ?
Flyoz

19
I appreciate the suggestions and reflections from both Joe and yourself
I have read the articles and comments about your aircraft and were really useful to those like myself  trying to understand this aircraft type
My wish list is fairly simple - I want to build essentially a single seater with a possibility of a passenger from time to time .Burt's philosopy was a light, small ,simple aircraft
I think he achieved that with a basic Varieze. I have no intention to build other than for myself .
I will have more questions as i go along :)
Thanks
Flyoz
 

20
Thanks - i did some research on the Defiant
Some of my reasoning to change the wing attach on the Varieze .......
The wing attach fitting are hard to come by
They do not allow for any changes once fitted
The Defiant / long Ez system has proved reliable
Its actually easier to build
I am not quite there yet but i think its possible to build the Varieze
as it was designed ( aerodynamically ) and still change the wing attach
Flyoz



21
The point is that even Burt Rutan decided to change the wing attach system when the product became the Long Ez .
Is the Varieze inferior ? I don’t think so - just different . Products evolve . The car you drive today has seatbelts , ABS and airbags- they did not in 1976 .
Part of the reason aircraft /  space  market is changing is because of entrepreneurs like Burt and the hundreds of experimental builders out there .
Every time I read his Varieze manual and check the drawings  I am inspired by the beauty of his designs .
I am simply trying to look at the design for myself .
Flyoz

22
Good point
Maybe the pin is in the root of the wing and the recepticle can be bonded into the strake once the wing has been levelled etc
Most accident photos seem to suggest the strakes remain intact so the pin will be an intergral part of the wing attach
I have roughed out a sort of combination of box spar near the connecting point then back to a C section further towards the tip
The geometry seems to allow for that
The Varieze wing worked just fine without a spar all the way to the tip and from what i can see that should be ok
I still need to move the root back 2.4 Inches (60 mm) to make it work ( but i can move the seats forward 2 inches without changing the overall sizing )
I have done a rough calc and the change to the Cof G is very small
The aerodynamic change is small too if you consider the tip stays where it is
I have done some work on the main wing spar and it would be very close to the original and still have the hard points as the Long built it
So far it looks ok

23
Thanks
Thats the one ... 
Interesting to note the 3.5G rating , based on this test
Thats partially my reason for finding another way of fixing the wing
Also the long ez system is easier to build with more repeatable results
I am sure most Varieze aircraft were built well so my attempt to find another way
is simply to my own personal decision
Another issue that came from this test is the wing twist issue
The original spar /wing joint is only 3.5 inches ( 89 mm ) from bolt center to bolt center
If you take the lever from the center of the spar to the center of the tip roughly 48 inches ( 1213mm )
Putting a pin at the leading edge of the root into the strake would help in keeping this area from twisting
In hindsight it easier to look back at the design and make smaller changes but i never lose sight of the elegance of the original design
Flyoz

24
RAF Varieze structural test ( PDF file )  is 600 KB but Max allowed is 300 KB for attachment
Any way around that ?
Flyoz

25
Thanks for the reassurance
I am sure built correctly most of the Varieze's flying are as robust as yours
I have seen some destructive testing of a Varieze and one other issue is twisting
When the wing is loaded up starts to twists at the Strake wing joint
It makes sense if you see just what that joint has to take and the load paths to it
All i was looking at is the possibility of joining it like a Long Ez which from an engineering point
of view is a  much much less stressed joint with better loadpaths
The Varieze wing in that test failed at 7 Gs and the canard at 8
Actually at the inbord central spar section of the wing spar joint
If you want i can post that test ( PDF )again
Flyoz

26
I think you are correct
I know too little about the effects of moving the wing back . The collective information of canard aircraft of this type is essentially
understood by very few . Not a lot of written data - and the existing data is very questionable .
I guess i must try to find a way of mechanically attaching the wing like the long Ez and retain exactly the existing aerodynamics
Not because they are absolute but simply that i am unsure( at this point )  what changes would bring .
Anyway its an interesting topic .
Some things have been done and tested ( thats the beauty of the collective information  of the net )
The wing does not need anhedral
The main wing and canard can be set to the same incidence as the Long Ez
The strakes can be enlarged slightly without negative effect .

27
Thanks Steve
I have had a careful look at the long Ez wing . Its only when you start to redraw in CAD that you can appreciate
how Burt Rutan could do this in his garage without a computer . Amazing stuff . And its very accurate .
Just to clarify what i had in mind.....
Only the root portion of the wing would move back 4+inches at the BL 32 line nothing else the wing area could remain the same
The main spar remains in exactly the same position although the tip is moved back about .75 inch ( 19mm )
The C section Long Ez spar looks lighter than the box section of the Varieze and does not have as much weight in the wing root fittings
Those wing root fittings mean the glass attached to them had to be much heavier to handle the loads at that point 
It would be interesting to calculate just how much weight goes backward if you take all that into account - i have not done that yet 
But i suspect its very little . My concern is the aerodynamics . The long Ez wing changed significantly , moving back and getting bigger so
the design can absorb some change .
My question is if the Cof G range could be made the same as original do you think moving the root back slightly would
have implications on the aerodynamics ?
Flyoz

28
I have a set of Varieze plans and am considering building this as my second project ( built and flew Jabiru for 8 years )
I understand it would be easier to build a Long ez but the Varieze is closer to an almost single place aircraft and its what i would like to build
I have read quite a bit including some of the CP newsletters
I would like to build fairly close to standard  . But i have many questions and hope you will give me some of your accumulated wisdom
One of the things i dont like about the design is the wing spar attach system . The long ez is a much better more robust system IMHO
I am in the process of turning the original drawings into CAD . Without changing the geometry significantly it would be possible to attach the wing to the spar like the long ez
It would mean that i would have to move the root of the wing ( along BL 32 line ) 4.35 Inches ( 110.67 mm ) back ( chord remains standard just moves back )
The section remains standard the tip position remains standard ( no anhederal though ) The wing area remains the same
It means the wing leading edge sweep angle will change from 26 to 24 deg ( fairly small )
It will change the C of G point but maybe the engine can be moved forward to compensate .
Any ideas appreciated
Flyoz

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