What system to use?
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Offline ezbill

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What system to use?
« on: January 10, 2009, 08:08:33 PM »
I'm going to build the wings on my long project soon, and read somewhere that the West System with slow hardner will work fine.
I'm looking for any and all comments before starting.
Thanks
Bill
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Offline Hmanvel

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 04:54:40 AM »
West System is fine for the filling/sanding portion of your project.  It isnt recommended for the structural layups.  EZpoxy is probably closest to the original formula epoxy recommended by RAF.
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Harry Manvel
Defiant N2HM
PTK / Pontiac, MI

Offline cloudman

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 07:29:18 PM »
Quote from: ezbill on January 10, 2009, 08:08:33 PM
I'm going to build the wings on my long project soon, and read somewhere that the West System with slow hardner will work fine.
I'm looking for any and all comments before starting.
Thanks
Bill

Bill,
Since the wings have the largest surface area of any portion of the plane, I would recommend to have all of your materials including the epoxy and hardner at a very warm temperature. I do not have any numbers to give you as to how much weight you may save, but when I layed up the surfaces of my wings a long time ago, the temperature in my garage was in the 90's. The epoxy flowed like water. I mixed the epoxy and hardener and my wife did quite a bit of the smoothing out. It seemed to work very nicely as a two person job. If you need to provide extra heat to get the temperature up, it would be well worth it.
WTJohnson
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Offline ezbill

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 08:49:33 PM »
Great info so far, I live in Lake Elsinore Ca, 90s is not a probem. I'll be doing this in my garage. I want all the input I can get before starting and no better place to go than the guys that have been there.
Bill
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Offline Bill James

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 09:40:20 AM »
Another vote for EZ Poxy
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Bill James, Fort Worth VariEze N95BJ
Downdraft Plenums, QuickCowls
There was supposed to be anhedral?
ATP, Society of Flight Test Engineers

Offline cloudman

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 06:27:05 PM »
Quote from: ezbill on January 11, 2009, 08:49:33 PM
Great info so far, I live in Lake Elsinore Ca, 90s is not a probem. I'll be doing this in my garage. I want all the input I can get before starting and no better place to go than the guys that have been there.
Bill
Bill,
I built and first flew my Varieze just a few miles from you in Corona....but that was back in 1981 when I first flew it. My first ride was with Jerry 'Cowboy' Gardner from Ramona. He used to fly up to Big Bear for breakfast fairly regularly on the weekend and would stop for gas at Corona. During my building time 1976-81, there was a fellow that did trailer his plane to some other local airport that I don't recall and did also come into Corona for gas. As far as I know I was the first locally built Varieze to fly out of Corona.

Prior to the Varieze I owned a 73 Tripacer that was tied down near the gas pumps.
You should not have any trouble finding some nice warm weather to build your plane ! I would check with the Cozy folks to see what they are using for epoxy, since they are the ones that seem to be doing a lot of the current building.

Good luck, Wayne Johnson.......Varieze N 725EZ
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Offline crouch

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 10:44:02 AM »
EJ and I have found doing smaller parts than a wing (engine cowls) that West and high ambient temps are not good. EZ Poxy works the best as it has a lower viscosity, wets out better, has a longer pot life and makes a lighter part. West is great for smaller quickie parts. We have even given EZ Poxy a shot in the microwave to lower the viscosity in colder temps--don't try that with West. I know of what I speak.

Steve Crouch
N180EZ
Flight testing + punch list
KWHP (SoCal)
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Offline ezbill

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 09:29:58 AM »
Great feedback! there are 3 hardners ----Recomendations?  also has anyone checked out the price for a 5 gallon Kit at Aircraft Spruce?  OUCH!!! We need some bailout money.:)
Thanks Bill
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Offline Bruce Hughes

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 10:52:27 AM »
Hi Bill

I certainly am not an expert but I have been building for many years.

I use Aeropoxy when possible.  Aeropoxy sets up a bit slow for me and
I am making things that are NOT structural.  I use West System for them
because I make them in the afternoon and want them finished by morning.

Use Aeropoxy for and structural parts.  It is MUCH less likely to harden
too fast (i.e. exotherm) compared to West System.  Be sure to STIR
enough which will help avoid exotherm.

If you use a helper, be CERTAIN that they do the spreading.  YOU do the
weighing (or mixing by dispensor) and stirring.  I have heard of epoxy/hardener
mix that never set up due to little mixing or incorrect ratio.

I know nothing about Ezpoxy

Bruce Hughes
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Yelm, WA
Longeze N199BH
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taught at Maui Community College

Offline Nomad

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 10:26:39 PM »
Bill:  I used both the West System fast and slow hardners in the course of finishing my EZ and I recommend the slow, especially in a warm climate.  With the fast hardner, I really liked being able to apply in the morning and be able to sand in the afternoon, but I was either wasting epoxy by having it exotherm and harden in the cup, or I had to mix such small batches that it took forever on large surfaces.  Going with the slow hardner fixed that. 
The other technique that helps on large surfaces is to mix a fairly large batch then QUICKLY pour it all on your surface and do a rough spread.  Creating this thinner layer prevents the exotherm.  Then you can go back to do the final spreading.
Jim
Quote from: ezbill on March 05, 2009, 09:29:58 AM
Great feedback! there are 3 hardners ----Recomendations?  also has anyone checked out the price for a 5 gallon Kit at Aircraft Spruce?  OUCH!!! We need some bailout money.:)
Thanks Bill
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Offline Linda

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Re: What system to use?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 05:44:21 AM »
I don't know of anyone who uses the West System for the STRUCTURE part of the wings or any other structure part of the Canards.  Most that I know use EZ poxy, Aero poxy, MGS. However West is good for small parts and finish work.  You will need a long pot life for big parts ie wings fuselage etc.
I'm no expert in this but I do love EZ Poxy as it works well.
Good Luck
EJ
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