Hangar Flying => Hangar Flying => Topic started by: Strider on November 22, 2004, 12:15:48 AM
Title: LongEZ for X-Plane version 7.62
Post by: Strider on November 22, 2004, 12:15:48 AM
I have uploaded a flight model for the computer simulator X-Plane of a generic LongEZ. This is for the latest version of X-Plane, v7.62. Order the version 7.x CD and download the free v7.62 update from www.x-plane.com.
The LongEZ flight model for X-Plane is optimized for correct training, with performance and handling matching an O-320-powered aircraft, including correct engine-out glide performance. Images:
http:/www.vigilanceaero.com/LEZ.jpg
and the free download for X-Plane v7.62:
http://www.vigilanceaero.com/LongEZ.zip
A Cozy MKIV flight model will be available a little later this week. These aircraft have unfinished instrument panels, due the the amount of work required for a panel using the new methods.
Recommended hardware for X-Plane V7.62 is 2 GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 64 MB OpenGL video board, joystick, and rudder pedals.
Title: Flight Simulator
Post by: easyrider on November 22, 2004, 07:54:45 PM
I have a LongEZ model for flight Simulator 2004. Send me an E-Mail and I will forward it on. Easyrider
Title: LongEZ
Post by: Strider on November 23, 2004, 02:52:33 AM
Thanks, easyrider, but I use a Mac and there is no current version of MSFS for Macintosh. X-Plane will be released in a Mac version for the foreseeable future because it is written on Macs. Burt Rutan also uses Macintosh computers. And the flight model files are not compatible. MSFS uses look-up tables of known performance, while X-Plane uses actual aircraft geometry and capacities.
Title: Flight Simulator for Canards
Post by: Invictus on November 27, 2004, 12:15:11 PM
Guys,
I have been contemplating making a cockpit mock-up of my Long-EZ (crude - out of plywood - whatever I can make in 2 hours or less), then mounting a monitor on top of it. I want to drive it with an "old" Dell Dimension 550 with a 600MHz pentium in it, all of which would be connected to the net to get real-time weather. Nothing fancy or blindingly fast, but effective.
The reason for all this is because I live in Seattle (can you say rain, ice and grey skies) and because the airport is over an hour from my house. I want to use it to keep my IFR currency, at least beyond the 6 in 6 rule required by the feds.
I want to use this set-up to practice IFR, but for it to be meaningful, I would want to customize the panel on the flight simulator to reflect my instrument panel. I currently have a Sandel and KLN-94 IFR GPS, and I am about to add a Dynon attitude indicator.
Are there any software packages out there that would allow me to customize my simulator panel to include these devices?
Thanks,
Tom Staggs Long-EZ N13YV Arlington, WA
Title: Charles Davis
Post by: Charles Davis on November 27, 2004, 10:46:15 PM
I downloaded the demo version of Xplane and will buy it as soon as I can find a store in San Diego that carries it.
It looks like it allows extensive customization of the control panel, but I've only looked at that area of the software and not tried any mods myself.
The LongEZ profile I downloaded from the link above is pretty amazing.
I'm trying to get ahold of a Long-EZ profile for MS Flight Simulator 2004, but no luck yet.
Title: X-Plane not in stores...
Post by: NWade on November 28, 2004, 12:52:31 AM
I don't believe X-Plane is sold in stores. It was briefly, awhile back - but Austin Meyers (the author/programmer) gets more money by selling it direct to consumers.
He does enough business with big corporations and such to not be worried about him being a "fly by night" operation that'll take your money - just go ahead and buy it online from the X-Plane website. v8.01 seems pretty nice!
BTW, does anyone else but me have an easy time with this Long-EZ model getting into a tail-first deep stall with large elevator movements at moderate speed? Maybe it's because its for v7.62, but Austin swears that the new X-Plane 8.01 is backwards-compatible to v7 planes... *shrug*
Take care,
--Noel
Title: XPlane Longez
Post by: Don on November 28, 2004, 05:39:40 PM
I have put in a deep stall several times and have not been able to recover it. I am using 7.6. Does this thing have an autopilot? Where do you engage it? Thanks
Title: X-Plane simulation
Post by: Charles Davis on November 28, 2004, 08:52:30 PM
For you guys who are flying the real thing and X-Plane, how accurate is the simulation?
Title: Hrmmm...
Post by: NWade on November 29, 2004, 01:40:03 PM
Lightening the fuel load and shifting the CG forward helps, but I can still induce a "snap roll" of sorts, to an invertted fully deep-stalled attitude with a couple of quick alternating rudder inputs.
The interior/panel and exterior models of the aircraft look great - but something about the handling just feels "off".
--Noel
Title: LongEZ for X-Plane version 7.62
Post by: Strider on November 30, 2004, 03:55:57 PM
Hey, thanks people for discovering this flaw in the LongEZ for X-Plane. I have not done enough testing of it, apparently. My apologies. This problem with deep-stalling will be fixed with an update SOON, I promise. (The real ones don't do that.)
Regarding custom hardware cockpits, I might be of some assistance.
- Yes, X-Plane will allow practical recreations of the Sandel and the Dynon, except for any multiple-page features. You would have the EFIS and engine indicators, primarily.
- I am able to provide complete hardware cockpits, including all instruments, controls, switches, timers, Hobbs- everything. There would be NO use of a mouse or keyboard, if this is desired. Partial panels and control components might also be made available. An entire panel for IFR built by me is priced at $3,000.
- I have considered manufacturing custom homebuilt airplane and helicopter flight training devices (FTD- simulators), specifically for canard-wing pilots. Unfortunately, these units are rather expensive. I currently have a Full Cab/Non-motion Schweizer 300C system in my hangar. It's set up for full IFR, with 4 monitors and complete panel and controls. This one is suitable for FAA certification- when Congress gets around to establishing standards and requirements for Low Cost Rotorcraft FTDs. Asking $21,000 for it right now. Disassembled fits in a pickup truck, can be installed through a regular size man-door. For an image please see www.vigilanceaero.com
Title: Its all good...
Post by: NWade on November 30, 2004, 04:29:03 PM
Thanks for the attention to detail, Strider!
The Vari and Cozy models are great to fly in X-Plane 8.01 - so I know you do good stuff.
To all others: You can grab the Vari and Cozy at x-plane.org by going here: http://www.x-plane.org/ - then go to the "search" menubar at the lower-right corner of the page.
Now I just need to get a new job, so I can buy the full version of X-Plane...
Take care,
--Noel
Title: Charles Davis
Post by: Charles Davis on November 30, 2004, 09:15:21 PM
I've been playing with the LongEZ in both MS Flight Simulator and X-Plane.
Is it just me, or is X-Plane really as superior as I think it is?
Title: X-Plane vs. MSFS...
Post by: NWade on November 30, 2004, 09:42:35 PM
The following is my opinion - as a flight-sim fan AND as an experienced (though out of work) computer game developer:
For me, the trade-offs are as follows:
1) MS-Flight Sim is a much more "polished" product - its formally developed by a dedicated team. X-Plane is more of a "darkhorse" development - by 1 full-time programmer and a few contributing coders & artists. This doesn't mean that X-Plane or Laminar Research put out an inferior product - but for compatibility, polished terrain graphics, etc. I'd bet Flight-Sim will always have a slight edge. X-Plane will always be somewhat "in development" - with new features being added and put out before they (or older features) are completely polished and matured. Over time, I believe that keeping X-Plane cross-platform between Windows & Mac will become a bigger headache, though... MS is furthering DirectX, but OpenGL is somewhat stagnant and has always suffered more driver/compatibility problems - it remains to be seen whether graphics-card manufacturers will still be supporting it for consumer products in 5 - 10 years.
2) Flight-Sim is a "mass-market" product. It therefore will probably enjoy greater support from real, commercial airplane manufacturers and the aerospace industry. X-Plane has been customized for clients like Scaled Composites and others; but as far as putting "name-brand" planes in the latest version of the program, Flight-Sim will always be able to tout huge numbers of planes "right out of the box". However, this "mass-market" attitude means that some of the more technical and less-fun aspects of flight may NEVER be included or modelled in MS Flight-Sim. X-Plane's "grass roots" mod community seems to be able to field a huge number of user-built planes, too - but the quality is always a bit suspect without thorough professional testing.
3) As a counter-point to #2, X-Plane is a highly-targetted product. Its entire goal is to simulate (roughly) the physics of something flying through the air. LOTS of parts of the product are "hacked in" and don't follow proper physics (land inverted or ground-loop a plane and watch your wheels go crazy, for a good example)... But the actual physical flight modelling is pretty darned excellent. The application of physics to flying bodies and the fairly-accurate accounting for density / altitude, temp., wind, etc. make the "core" of X-Plane fairly technically advanced. Do NOT confuse good flight physics with a godly programmer, though! While I give Austin Myers a great deal of credit for his software, his recent news update about "vectors & objects" cover VERY BASIC modern programming practices; and the fact that he is just now making use of them was rather shocking to me (but then I'm frustrated because people keep knocking be for being more of a web-programmer than a "real" programmer)... I have found plenty of subtle errors in X-Plane; but for a very small company, the product is extremely good. Austin certainly has a tenacity and determination that I couldn't possibly match - the product has probably consumed at least 10,000 to 20,000 hours of his life.
Bottom line for me is: If you care about the in-flight handling of your aircraft - and aren't necessarily interested in an accurate representation of your home-town's buildings from the air - X-Plane is the way to go. Its small-team roots are a double-edged sword, providing a slightly less-polished product; but with a tighter focus and the agility to fix or add to the product quickly. If you want the flashiest graphics and product support; as well as a more casual flight experience, then MS Flight-Sim is the way to go. I have a feeling that the former of the two is more appropriate for the folks here. ;-)
Take care,
--Noel
Title: X-Plane
Post by: Strider on December 01, 2004, 08:14:11 PM
Sounds like an advertisement for MSFS. Upbeat and positive about MSFS, lots of specific complaints about X-Plane. My opinion is that X-Plane is for the folks here, not MSFS. Just my opinion.
Title: MS FS vs X-Plane
Post by: Charles Davis on December 01, 2004, 09:03:14 PM
I'm generally a big microsoft fan. (don't laugh, their stuff just works and it's helped me a lot).
In this case, I like X-plane better. The instrument graphics are better, and the handling seems more hi-fy for the long ez.
I'm getting my legal version of X-plane in a few days so hopefully I'll learn how to customize it to my plane.
I like the simulator for practicing emergency procedures.
Title: Oops...
Post by: NWade on December 01, 2004, 11:25:52 PM
Strider -
Sorry, not meant to be an endorsement of MSFS. I actually like X-Plane better, myself. However, since others were talking about its superiority, I felt I'd give some counter-point perspective. I made the stupid assumption that a lot of people here have already tried X-Plane and know about it.
I personally feel X-Plane is much better at simulating actual in-flight physics. BUT, I'm more of a computer programmer than I am a pilot; and I've also seen people put the product on a VERY high pedestal - which I don't think it necessarily deserves. For my money, X-Plane is a great product... But I wanted to point out both the positives and negatives of both.
Take care,
--Noel
P.S. I guess I should've clarified that by "casual" in my last post, I meant from a basic computer-user's / gamer's perspective (i.e. a non-aviator)... NOT a casual pilot.
Title: X-Plane
Post by: Strider on December 02, 2004, 10:15:13 PM
Yeah, I see what you mean, Noel. I sometimes like to ridicule MSFS for being a lookup-table application- but then in honesty, so is an Evans & Sutherland Boeing 777 Class A Simulator. The problem for us Macintosh users is that (a) there is no current version of MSFS for us, and ( b ) X-Plane is written on Macs, and then ported to Windows and Linux. So we can be doubly preferential at times.
Don- The canard designs that I have uploaded do not have explicit controls for autopilot, although there are indicator lamps for Wing Leveler, and perhaps Alt Hold. This stems primarily from the fact that I have none in my VariEze (the real one). However, most joysticks for flying computer sims have buttons included, and there is a joystick programming screen in X-Plane where you can assign the stick buttons to any of a large number of control functions. The autopilot functions will work regardless of whether an indicator or control is designed into the airplane. If you use a stick button for the Wing Leveler, you will see a lamp come on for it.
I do appreciate your concerns, and am noting them. The current uploads of canards for X-Plane are introductory- these are brand new designs done quite recently. There will be further development and additional releases.
I plan to photograph the panel in Ion Huss's N110EZ and produce a photo-realistic panel in the LongEZ. I don't fly with anyone right now flying a Cozy. But- if a current owner/pilot of a Long or a Cozy is particularly proud of their instrument panel, and would like it immortalized in a computer program, send photos. I would need good, high-res, digital close-ups, in good lighting, for the whole panel. Angle shots at 45, 90, 135 both left & right, 180 degrees to the rear can also installed.
Title: Xplane
Post by: Don on December 02, 2004, 11:31:49 PM
I am enjoying flying both the varieze and the Longeze.
Look forward to any updates.
Thanks, Don
Title: Preliminary is better than none!
Post by: NWade on December 03, 2004, 12:15:07 AM
Hey, I'm not complaining - they may not be perfect, but they're a heck of a lot more complete than any other canard set I've seen for X-Plane. Its obvious you've put a fair number of hours into them - especially since I started toying with Plane-Maker tonight. I took the liberty of tweaking with your Cozy design, just to see what the plane is capable of...
If the wings were totally rigid bodies (as X-Plane makes everything), you could put nearly full-span ailerons on... I did, and with a couple of other tweaks to the control systems I got the roll rate to about 300 degrees per second - wow!
Funny thing is, in real life I've heard deeper-chord ailerons beat wider-span ailerons, because of the wing-flex near the tip. But I toyed with aileron chord lengths of 0.27 to 0.40 and really didn't see nearly the improvement that wider-span ailerons give - at least on a stiff wing. I think the deeper-chord ailerons start to spoil the airflow over the main wing before they generate enough force to compensate for their short moment-arm relative to the fuselage centerline...
Okay, enough geeking-out for one night on here. :-P This is what happens when you're a computer guy who's suppressed the urge to fly for a decade...
Take care,
--Noel
Title: LongEZ for X-Plane version 7.62
Post by: Anonymous on December 03, 2004, 10:52:42 AM
Anybody know of a Cozy MK IV model for FS 2004?
Title: LongEZ
Post by: Strider on December 03, 2004, 11:03:52 AM
Noel- just wait until I get the Jet Powered Cozy, and the Rocket powered LongEZ done. Then you can really have some fun of the kind that is NOT approved for the real airplanes in general ownership. :)
Title: LongEZ for X-Plane version 7.62
Post by: tony on December 06, 2004, 12:57:28 AM
Hey strider
I just purchased x-plane 7 and upgraded it to 7.62 I downloaded the long ez files into x-plane but it keeps telling me that there is a corrupted file also the program is very jumpy at times and freezes up my computer I have a gateway 1.1ghz with alot of memeory 512mb and a really nice video card when it is working it looks great everyting but the long ez that is any ideas on how to fix these issues?
Thanks Tony
Title: Long-EZ under FS9
Post by: OM on December 06, 2004, 01:35:21 AM
Dear All,
Be informed that you can download my Rutan Long-EZ (Millennium Flight Around The World twice) for FS9 from :
You have to catch-up the original file HBYCT_V1.ZIP and the patch file HBYCT_P1.ZIP.
Have a look to my Web pages :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/designair
The fully detailled Virtual Cockpit is missing, but the work is in progress.
Actually, I am flying a real french Long-EZ so I did my best to stick to the real dynamics, but according to the FS9 limits.
Flying Safe.
Title: VariEze and value of X-Plane simulator
Post by: Strider on January 05, 2005, 09:44:18 AM
We are back from a 1,300 nm holiday trip in VariEze 111JK (the real aircraft that the XP version was modeled from.) It's actually been a few days that we've returned, Denver to Phoenix and back. The aircraft ran and flew flawlessly. South thru NM and then West, we stopped for fuel in Santa Fe, NM. Freezing cold and windy, but clear all the way. We overtook Santa in broad daylight, and he sent us this photo:
http://www.vigilanceaero.com/VEZoverCO.jpg
Tuesday morning (28th) we flew out of Phoenix between dramatic cloud layers at 8 AM, maintained VFR and there were lots of holes below. Plenty of Light to Moderate Turbulence in NM and CO that afternoon- Oh Boy, My favorite (NOT).
I practiced this flight 8 or 10 times in X-Plane; the whole flight- Longmont 2V2, Colo to Phx-DVT and back- in X-Plane flying my VariEze. I used real weather downloaded in flight. I became familiar with the terrain and the orientations of airports all along the way. I practiced randomly-timed engine failures, landed on roads, and the X-Plane model demonstrates the same Glide Ratio as the real plane, which is less than it's supposed to be by design. With sufficiently accurate fuel flow, capacity, weight, and cruise speeds in the X-Plane model, I accurately predicted how far the real plane would get between fuel stops, including the probable impact of weather.
I firmly believe that X-Plane has shown what my plane can and cannot do in emergencies. I don't want to stop the prop on my plane in a practice session, because it does not have a starter. That would be a practice exercise a little too real for me. And I was able to safely start flying the plane in the first place because I flew it in X-Plane. If you fly a real airplane, X-Plane is the best value BAR NONE in aviation. Most of the gadgets sold to aviators are unbelieveably expensive and still of dubious value. The price of flying emergencies and familiarization flights in X-Plane is absolutely negligible when compared to it's value.