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Hangar Flying

Hangar Flying => Hangar Flying => Topic started by: allen on August 01, 2006, 12:27:11 PM

Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: allen on August 01, 2006, 12:27:11 PM: 2000 ways to not buy a Canard

   As a teenager I was invited to take a ride in friends Long-Ez. We took off from Rosemond Skypark headed for Mojave with a quick lap around Burt Rutan’s home in the dessert. Until that day I had only taken rides in Cessna and Piper aircraft. Since that ride it has been a dream to one day own one of these extraordinary aircraft. A combination of sleek looks and the incredible maneuverability were beyond words. I have never forgotten that ride.
   Years past as they do and I finally found myself in a position to possibly make the dream happen. The search was on. I found an aircraft on a website after searching for well over a year. With the help and guidance from friends who own these aircraft I decided that it might well be the best I could get of my modest budget. The aircraft had been flown for many hours and the pilot was well known in the community. After speaking with the owner over the course of several months, a deal was reached. The seller did not have a contract already so I found one on the same website that I found the plane. We discussed the details of the purchase and I wrote them into the contract. These included a fresh conditional inspection, used spare propeller, extra headset, and the installation of an intercom that would be purchased by me. (The seller had flown the plane solo for 17 years and had removed the old intercom when it failed. We would most certainly need one in order to get me checked out in the plane, and I planned on flying with my wife.) I had emailed this contract and the seller accepted it. I signed the contract and faxed it to the seller at a number he provided. The Seller stated he did not receive the fax, but would like to hold off on the signatures until I arrived, as there were some sensitive issues to be discussed that the seller indicated he would not talk about over the phone. He went on to indicate that he had intentions of selling the plane for less on paper in order to avoid tax obligations. He said this is how it was done in the past and that this is how he would like to do it this time as well since he is retired and on a fixed income. Although I felt uneasy about this development, I let the giddiness of the purchase over ruled my best judgment.
   It was made clear that this aircraft was not going to win any beauty contests and was in need of a paint job. This was confirmed in the photographs sent via email that I shared with my friends. Cosmetics were no problem. Like any pilot my greatest concern was safety. I explained that I would be flying the aircraft back home and that my wife and I would plan on many long years of fun flying in this plane. The seller explained that the airplane was a proven performer having recently flown to Kitty Hawk and back with no problems. Plus, it has a great autopilot to help keep those long trips manageable. The fresh conditional would make certain things would be ready to go. Against the recommendations of some of my friends, I sent a $2k deposit despite not having a signed contract. This was a very nice elderly gentleman who seemed more concerned that his beloved airplane would be going to a good home that if the sale were to happen at all.
   Ecstatic that my dream would come true I began to prepare for the trip. A friend who is a former EZ driver and current Cozy pilot offered some right seat time. The same person had been with me throughout the searching process and had been a great help. Obviously I jumped at the chance to fly a cozy.
Other preparations were made as well. I leased a tie down spot at the local airport, placed my name on the waiting list for a hanger, and consulted with my local A&P about what to expect from the O-235 motor. Extra life insurance was purchased as a “just in case.” A plane ticket was purchased and the waiting began. During the wait I continued to learn as much as I could from other pilots as well as articles from on this and other sites. This community is very generous with time and knowledge. I intended to use it all! The intercom was purchased and mailed for installation. As a highlight I placed a call to Scaled Composites and to my surprise Burt Rutan would meet with me for a quick photo or us with my new plane the week I was there. Life was great!
   Then it began…
   Excited about the chance to get a picture with the legend himself and my new plane I called the seller to let him know. He was mildly excited himself.
“When you see Burt tell him this is the same plane he said he would not even high speed taxi in.”
The seller explained that he had flown into a personal sucker hole and when he landed at Osh Kosh he asked Burt to look at the damaged canard. Apparently that was Burt’s comment after inspecting the damage. In hindsight I wonder if Burt saw more than just a damaged canard…
Anxious to get out to pick up my new plane I called the seller every few days to be sure we were on the same page. I was told the conditional was going fine and that he was making minor repairs as he found them such as repacking the grease in the gear and things of that sort. He offered for me to stay at his apartment while I was there getting checked out and that his son would be able to pick me up form the airport since his eyesight is not the best and does not drive at night. “What a great guy” I thought.
Just a few days before I was to head out I called to be certain things were on track. He said all was well but wanted to be sure I was fine with the A&P he was going to use for the conditional. The usual guy was not available so he was using a gentleman who was well known on the field, but also to the FBI. He had trained the pilots who flew the plane into the pentagon. I looked the mechanic up on the net and made a few calls. Like many of those caught up in the 9/11 aftermath, he was an unknowing participant and was not at any fault. He had simply given some flying lessons to some students. How was he to know what they had planned? After looking at the facts I decided that I did not have any problems with using this mechanic. He was not a “good friend” so I knew that the “friend” factor would not play into his inspection. Great! No problems!
One problem… “I don’t feel I can put in the comms, but my hangermate is good at these things and he might be able to do it. I’ll ask him.”
“Ok, just as long as we have an intercom before we try getting me checked out.” I tell the seller. He seems to be in agreement.
Then the call arrives that I have feared. “Well my hanger mate wont put them in either. I guess I can look around here for somebody who will give you a good price on an install.” “
“Give me and good price? Wasn’t this part of the deal?” I asked.
“No, I told you that it would be as a favor. I cannot do it and my hangermate said its above him as well. I know a place not far from here that might be able to do them for a good price. You may want to just hold off putting them in until you get home. We really don’t need them to get you checked out. We brief everything on the ground anyway. There is not much to say in the air.” Says the seller.
At this point I officially want out of this deal, but I’m screwed. No signed contract. If I walk out now I’m out $2k plus the cost of the airline ticket. I look at the numbers and decide that an intercom and a miscommunication are not worth walking away from the deal. But I sure as hell will not fly a strange new plane without comms. We need to come up with a plan for comms.
The seller says he has a friend who has a portable intercom box we can borrow.
The day arrives and my wife drives me to the airport. Before we go to the terminal we drive around to the GA parking area. I want to see my tie down spot. We talk about my trip and my flight plan. Then we talk about the “what ifs” that go along with an adventure like this. I assure her that I have done all I can to get ready for the trip. I have flown the Cozy. I have flown the EZ simulator for over 150 hours. I have 12 hours of flight time in the last month, 5 at night. I have spent hours on forums, mailing lists and on the phone with pilots across the country. I have my charts. I have a plan. I’m ready. Bring on the dream!
When I arrived at the destination airport I get a cab and head to the sellers house. His son had business out of town so he was not able to pick me up. No problem. I arrive at the seller’s apartment and finally put a face to the voice. I want to go see the plane, but we cannot go since he cannot drive at night. It’s a long sleepless night. In the morning I get to see my plane!
We arrive at the airport and meet a group of EZ pilots having their usual Saturday morning meeting. The hanger has three EZ’s. This is the first time I have ever seen a LE and VE side by side. The planes look fast just sitting in the hanger. I am introduced to the people in the hanger as the buyer of the sellers plane and each is quick with a handshake and a smile. My blood is pumping! Lets go see my plane.
We get to his hanger and open it up. There she is. Weathered, but I expected that. We pull her out a bit into the light to walk around her. I want to go for a ride in her but we can’t. The seller explained the night before that he had taken it to the wash rack when the left mag failed. The A&P would be coming in this morning just to replace the mag for us.
“Great” I thought. This works out nicely actually because it will allow me to not only meet the A&P that performed the conditional, but also ask questions from a local expert.
By now the word is getting out around the field that there is an EZ that has sold and being picked up. EZ drivers mil around the hanger and I am introduce to each of them. Nice folks. We all talk shop. They each take turns talking about what was easy and what was hard in relation to transitioning to an EZ. They are a wealth of information. One is a builder and offers to show me his plane located in the facing hanger 20 yards away. His aircraft is plans built and beautiful. He takes meticulous care of his baby. I make a mental note that I want to fix my plane up to look that good one day.
The A&P arrives and he introduces himself. I explain who I am and that I will be flying this plane back across the country. I ask him if he found anything that needs fixed. It was at this time that I got a chill down my spine.
“To be honest I have not seen the plane before. This is the first time I have ever seen it.” He tells me.
“I was to understand that you did the conditional inspection. Your name is on the paperwork right?”
“Yes. But I signed it as a favor to his hangermate. They bought me lunch and paid me $40. Its normal practice in experimental aircraft. I’m sure he did a good job. I’ll look while I change the mag and let you know what I think. But I do not know these planes so I can only tell you what I see in the engine.”
I ask the seller just who exactly conducted the inspection after all. I know the seller was not the builder, has not ever built an experimental, and does not hold an A&P license himself. I know it’s not legal.
“I did. I have done my own inspections for as long as I’ve had the plane. I know what I’m doing. It’s done this way all the time.”
“It’s done this way all the time.” is becoming the battle cry of the sale. It’s also the last words often said before something bad happens.
Now I am beginning to get a bit angry. At this point I feel that I was deliberately misled. Had I of known this I would have hired an A&P myself. Then I begin to get angry with myself for not having the plane inspected by an outside mechanic in the first place. Home many times had I read this in the forums! The fault is mine.
Again I look at the overall deal and decide that it is not worth walking away from over this. Perhaps he really does know the plane better than anybody. If that is the case then great, I could not ask for a better inspection. However, my B.S. flags are beginning to get raised. MY gut is telling me that something is seriously wrong.
The mechanic has the motor off of the plane in no time and the crowed takes turns looking it over as the A&P works and converses with them. The cheerful mood has taken a noticeable turn. Conversations are beginning to take place with hushed voices and shaking heads. I keep an ear out to catch what is happening. Working many car crashes over the years I have learned to read body language, and these folks do not like something but obviously do not wanting to voice what it is.
Then mechanic comes to me in that hushed voice and takes me aside for a conversation of our own. I’m officially nervous.
“I just wanted to tell you that the wiring harness is trash. It will fail. It looks like rats live in there. You wanted me to tell you if something looked unsafe for your flight. This is unsafe. I would not recommend you fly this plane in this shape.”
He explains that he has a harness across the airport that will work and goes to get it. Again I feel myself getting a bit angry. If the seller really knew what he was doing why didn’t he replace this already? Or is the mechanic pulling a fast one here? I look at the harness and it does look terrible. The wires are chaffed through in several places and been wrapped with electrical tape to cover the holes. The steel braiding has been cut in several places as well. Either way, I am in over my head at this point. Time to call the experts.
I make a quick call to my Cozy friend and explain the situation. We discuss the options and I decide that since I’m here i may as well keep looking at the deal. I am encouraged to always walk away if its that bad. Besides, I still have the check in my pocket and have not lost all of my money yet.
The mechanic returns and begins putting the motor back on the plane. The builder in the facing hanger has pulled his bird out and offers me a ride. We won’t be flying the seller’s plane today and I can always use more instruction in an EZ. More experience cannot be a bad thing!
We take off and head north to a nearby airfield. Almost immediately he gives the controls over to me. The feeling is incredible! The plane handles almost exactly like the simulator, although the sight picture is different from the back seat. We practice some turns and slow flight. He commends me on keeping it on the numbers. I am able to the see the ASI from my seat so I do my best to control airspeed with pitch while he handles the throttle. I feel the airplane really flew itself. Rutan really knew how to build these things!
We fly the pattern for a touch and go at a nearby airport. The owner talks me all the way down until a few seconds before touchdown when he take the plane back. As soon as we are back airborne he gives the plane back to me for the climb out and return flight.
We return after a 40-minute flight and again I am allowed to fly the approach until moments before touchdown. We head back to the hanger and arrive in time to see the mechanic loading up his gear for the day. He explains that they just finished and all is well. They try to fire the engine…Nothing.
The mechanic and his assistant dive back into the motor. They find the problem rather quickly.
“Did you know your hot wire to your starter is a coaxial cable off of a TV set? This was never intended to carry a current!”
“Well it’s worked for 17 years without a problem.” Yells the seller.
The assistant questions the legality of him fixing the wire. If it fails and people are hurt, will he be responsible? They decide to fix a new connector to the coaxial cable and try it again. This time it works. The assistant is still shaking his head as he leaves.
“I’m sorry about the wiring harness. I would have caught that if I had done the inspection. I’m not sure why he left it in there.” The mechanic tells me. “I do not like the coaxial cable on the starter. You should get that changed right away before it catches fire.”
My stomach is doing back flips. I feel cold.
The fellow I had just flown with comes over along with another former EZ pilot. The two have been allot of help and we are becoming fast friends. They have known the seller for several years. My seller seems a bit stand offish spending most of his time sitting in a chair in the hanger and no longer wanting to converse with anyone. He also says he has no intention of staying at the airport any longer and needs a nap. It’s 1:30PM.
We push the plane back into the hanger.
After returning to the seller’s apartment I receive a call from a friend who lives in the area that I had not seen in several years. Not needing a nap myself I take the opportunity to visit with my friend and get away form this situation I have found myself in. The seller and I agree to meet the following morning at the hanger.
The next morning I arrive for the pre-purchase inspection. The seller had just arrived and I help him to open the hanger and pull out the plane. The seller then notices that he had left the ignition on from the day before and the battery is now dead. We elect to inspect the plane while the battery charges.
The inspection begins in the cockpit with a familiarization. We begin with the breaker panel and the numerous unlabeled switches.
“What is this switch for?” I ask as I point to one.
“Nothing. I don’t think it’s connected to anything.”
“Ok, what does this one for?”
“I don’t know. “
“Do you have a wiring diagram we can look at?”
“No, never came with one.”
“What about this switch here?”
“That’s the left mag. No wait, it’s the starter I think.”

I feel myself getting angered again. Lets move on to something else and come back to this.
“What does this bungee cord for?” I ask.
“It holds the gear up.”
The problems are mounting already. I was assured the plane was in great mechanical condition and it obviously is not. The trust in the seller went out the window after the discovery of the wiring harness and coaxial cable. Pile those on top of the intercom issue, lack of knowledge of the basic switchology of his aircraft that he has owned for 17 years, and now a landing gear issue. What else…
“That’s for the landing light, but it hasn’t worked in years so I don’t use it. That’s why it won’t come down.” He explains as the tour continues.
I sit in the seat and do a stick wipeout and rudder deflection. The stick is sticking with full right deflection. The seller explains that this is normal but nothing to be worried about. I insist that it is not and we begin to investigate. We discover a 1/8th inch hole under the right wing just inside of the aileron attachment. Moving the stick we can see the head of a bolt moving over the hole. I assume that this is the attachment bolt from the control tube to the aileron. The seller insists that this cannot be the case and begins to fill it in with filler. No attempt was made to see if the bolt has backed out or lost the retainer nut. The stick continued to catch.
I also note that the left rudder remains deflected and will not return to neutral. The seller explains that this too is normal and it will return when sufficient aerodynamic forces build and push it back. Until then he just counters with opposite rudder. In the cases where if does not return he lands and manually forces it back. We discover that the rudder cable is catching on the edge of the autopilot and beginning to chafe. The seller fails to see this as any kind of a problem. Duct tape is placed on the edge of the autopilot in act as a chafing tape for the cable.
Although I am not a builder I know that sticking flight controls are bad universally. Add this to the now growing list.
The seller would like to take a quick flight before the weather gets to hot. I decline to go for a ride until he has flown off the recently changed magneto. Reluctantly he takes off.
While he is gone one of the other pilots stands with me to watch the flight. His conscience is bothering him so he finally speaks from the heart.
“I’v known ____ since he moved to this field but I had never really looked at his plane. If you are seriously going to buy it you may want to have him fly it out to your place.” Me tells me. “Once you get it home you can fix all the stuff that’s wrong with it.”
“Originally I had asked him to fly it out but he declined. He said he did not want to get a plane all the way across the country only to have the seller back out of the deal. He also said that its an adventure to fly cross country and that all pilots should have the chance. He kind of sold me on the idea really.”
As I write this I see just what a bad decision I made. The true test of a plane is if the owner will put his life on the line to fly it. This seller knew something. That is what my friends have advised me.
We watch him land and head for the fuel farm. We decide to go back to the hanger to wait. I ask the other pilot to help me review the paperwork since I am not an expert at these matters.
The seller has not kept logs well at all. His logs consist of a grocery bag half full of loose papers and two logbooks that have not been updated in several years. We begin to crawl through the bag and quickly discover that we are missing several items. The first notable item is recent transponder check.
When the seller returns I ask about his logs and the missing transponder check.
“I have never had one done, that’s why it’s not in there. I know it’s working when the tower reads back my altitude.”
“How can that be legal? What do I do if I am ramp checked?”
“You just never keep the logs with the plane. I’ve been ramp checked several times and they just don’t ask. If you want a check we can take it over to the radio shop in the morning and we can just add the cost to the sale.”
My head is spinning. What else could possibly go wrong? The plane was supposed to be ready to go. It’s not even legal at this point.
The seller is still sitting in the plane. “Lets go for a ride. I just topped off the tanks so you will see how she handles loaded over gross.”
He cannot be serious! I do a quick weight and balance with my palm pilot. He is flying at over 1700lbs on a 90-degree day in a plane that just had the engine off the day before. The gear is loose and needs held up with a bungee cord, which does not guarantee that the gear will not bounce out of the over lock. By the way, the intercom that he borrowed doesn’t work so we will not be able to communicate for the duration of the flight.
I protest the weight and balance issue as a means of avoiding a flight. He points to two fuel cans that are empty and says I can offload 10 gallons if it would make me feel better. I then do the dumbest thing I have ever done in my life. I offload 10 gallons and take a flight in this machine. My angle was with me that day!
We take off. I can see the ASI and note that we are just over stall throughout the climb. Once we are at altitude he gives me hand signals. Points left to turn left. Points right to turn right. This is true vintage flying.
We round a mountaintop and head back towards the airport. Then the unthinkable happens. The engine looses power. I feel the plane sink as the engine struggles. I cannot ask questions since we have no intercom. I start looking for a soft spot to aim at. My mind is racing. There is not much I can do from the back seat. I look at the switch panel hoping that he is testing the mags or trouble shooting the problem. I look over to the left side of the cockpit to see if the mixture has been bumped but cannot tell from my vantage point. 15-20 seconds into this power suddenly returns. I climb. We land uneventfully.
“You flew it perfectly! You were on the number the whole time and held altitude. You will be fine flying home. You ready to begin your taxi tests?”
“What the happened up there?! Why did we loose power?!”
“We never lost power. What are you talking about? Never happened.”
I go over the flight as it happened from the back seat. Apparently the front seat was someplace other than attached to the plane I was ridding in. He is adamant that the event never happened. I am officially pissed! I know what happened, I was there. Interestingly, later in his version of events he states that he had changed power setting and that made it run rough for a few seconds. He also went on to retract his assessment of my piloting abilities. A complete 180 from his statements and actions that day. A testament to character I suppose. At this point it is not surprising.
At this point I could not take anymore. I sat down with the seller and expressed my concerns. His mood instantly became hostile.
“Well then lets get you to the airport. Sorry you are out your $2000 but it is a good lesson for you. Maybe you need to stay out of experimentals if that flight scared you.”
I tell him I need to make a phone call and I’ll be right back. I leave the hanger and call my friend who has been helping me. He advises I walk. After the call is over I walk back over to the hanger. The seller has already put the plane away and is ready to go home. One of the other pilots comes over and says he would like to give me a ride in his plane and I should come over. He will give me a ride to the seller’s house when we land. I accept the offer as a reason to just get away from the seller for a few minutes and collect my thoughts.
We walk over to the other pilot’s hanger. He knows I’m destroyed right now. He has called another pilot over that I had met the first day I arrived at the hanger with 3 EZ’s. We will call him pilot #2. He is also a Long-Ez pilot/owner.
The intervention begins.
“We have known _ _ for years, but we have to say that his plane is not safe and it is going to kill you.”
The final nail.
“You need to get on an airplane, go home, and live. Just walk away.” They tell me.
“Can I speak with his hangermate? He seems to do allot of the work on this plane.” I ask.
“(The hangermate) has been keeping clear of this whole thing for a reason. He wants nothing to do with the deal. He does not want his name affiliated with this transaction.” I am told.
These are his friends speaking! The ones he introduced me to the first day. The ones who spoke in hushed voices when the motor was pulled off and they looked under the cowling. I know what they are saying is true, but that doesn’t soften the blow.
I look each in the eye and ask them “would you fly this plane to Va?”
Each looks me squarely back and says emphatically “No!”
We talk for a bit longer. Stories are relayed about gear up landings and how the plane has been tipped up on its tail several times. None of this has been reveled to me earlier except for mention by the seller of one gear up landing where he managed to hold the nose off long enough to deploy the gear. Unfortunately nothing they can say is earth shattering at this point.
Finally I ask to be driven to the seller’s home. I have made my decision; I just have to stick with it. When I arrive I stay outside in order to call my wife and bite the bullet. I explain the situation to her. To my surprise rather than being upset about the money she is relieved that I had the capacity to walk away. She knows this is my dream. I eat, breath, and sleep Long-Ez. She knows how much I wanted this. She just wants me home at this point.
With some quick work on the Internet we find me a flight back and a rental car since the cheapest flight leaves in 3 days. I will stay with my friend until then. I remember how blessed I am that she tolerates me. Truly she is a remarkable woman. A second call to pilot #1 secures me a ride to the airport to get the rental car.
I walk back to the seller’s apartment. I quickly gather my things. The seller asks me if I have the check for the payment. He wants to begin the paperwork for the transfer before taxi tests begin the next morning.
“_ _, I can’t buy the plane. I feel that it has been grossly misrepresented and I want my deposit back.”
“Well you not getting it back. It was a nonrefundable deposit. Good-by.”
I’m screwed. How on earth did I allow myself to make such a chain of bad decisions? I head for the airport with pilot #1 who advises me that I have made one the best decisions in my life. He goes on to explain that he had no idea that the seller was the type of person that he witnessed over the last few days. We part ways after I thank him for all of his help.
I refrained from posting any of this for well over a month while I spoke with the seller and several attorneys. The seller refuses to return the deposit. The attorneys advise me that I will the case no problem, but it will cost more than I have lost. We are exploring placing a lien on the aircraft should it ever sell and this seems to be the best option. We are also exploring suing for fraud for the entire amount as well as court costs and attorneys fees.
Pilot #1 and I spoke recently and he said that the seller was kicked out of his hanger after I left. The seller’s son was also asked to leave his hanger. Several of the pilots have made it their duty to warn any potential buys of the true condition of the plane should it sell.
I contacted the FSDO and began to tell the story to an investigator. Before I could say the names of the parties involved he already knew who they were. The A&P apparently has a history of shady deals and has been investigated by the FSDO on several occasions. That did not make me feel any better.
Since this event I have not flown. My desire just isn’t there right now. I hope it returns because flying has brought tremendous joy in the past. Several other pilots have emailed me their personal stories in dealing with this seller in the past, as well as their experiences when they had considered purchasing this plane. If what these other pilots say is correct then there has been a history of deception by this seller. I only wish they would have come forward earlier. I know that this seller represents a small portion in the community and I just had the misfortune of meeting him, but responsibility is really mine.
I spent countless hours researching these planes and how to go about buying one. Several members gave me excellent advice. One offered to fly out to California with me to help ferry the plane back as well as look it over. I listened to each of them and then promptly did exactly the opposite. I set myself up for failure for the start. I was walking in a bad part of town and got mugged when I had been warned and I knew better. I let emotion overrule good decision-making.
The seller was right; it was a very expensive and painful lesson. For you buyers out there, learn from my mistakes.
·   Have a third party help you find a plane. Preferably a builder.
·   Hire an A&P to perform a conditional.
·   Have the seller fly the plane to you if possible.
·   Make you deposit only as big as you are willing to walk away from.
·   Most importantly, have a contract signed by all parties before any money changes hands.
·   Do not put stock into the seller’s reputation.
·   Insist on seeing the logs early in the negotiations. If the plane has been taken care of the logs will reflect this. Without logs its just taking a persons word as to the condition and history.
·   Most importantly, have a contract signed by all parties before any money changes hands
Had I followed any one of these I would not have found myself in this situation. Make no mistake; there are those who lack and moral or ethical convictions that obligate them to do the right thing. Have somebody who is emotionally detached from the sale hold the checkbook. This is similar to Rutan’s recommendation of giving the key to your plane to another pilot when you are close to first flight.
To those of you out there in Ca and those on this board who helped me out I give you my sincerest thanks. You are the heart of the aviation community. We need most definitely need more like you. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is speak with your conscience. Although you may have lost a friend on your field, you undoubtedly saved a life.
Allen
Title: How not to buy
Post by: Jeffco on August 01, 2006, 01:38:03 PM: Allen
Thanks for the great write up. As Paul Harvey says, now for the rest of the story, and you laid it out well. I do not know the seller personally but know who you are talking about. It's a shame he won't just give you back the down payment, it would be the right thing to do. I was like you in a way, I was just so excited to get my Long ez that I rushed in with blinders on. Lucky for me, the builder did an outstanding job on the airframe and control system and every switch is labled and works ! I did get burned by the mechanic who did the annual, but I learned to search out and find an excelent mechanic in Chino Calif. ( Bill Oertel )and have always repaired items that needed attention. Now I am in the position of a possible sale due to financial problems, so may be on the other side of the coin. Lucky for me, the builder may buy her back, although he would rather have a cozy at this point. And I would rather find a way to keep her. Keep looking, not all of us canard drivers will misslead you. Good luck on your search.

Jeff Gabrielson
Long ez N141
Hawthorne airport
Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: Waiter on August 01, 2006, 02:36:15 PM: Allen,

Good writeup.

The honorable thing to do would be for the seller to make out a check for $2,000 and drop it in the mail.

Gud Luck

Waiter
Title: karma
Post by: D on August 01, 2006, 04:21:04 PM: Wow, Allen! Thanks for sharing the $2000 lesson...

What really gets under my skin is that one of our "experts"... a guy who writes/edits/posts documents on ez.org telling the rest of us how to live happily with and safely operate our experimental aircraft... is capable of pulling a stunt like this. What gives?

I know he was an active member of EAA Chapter 14. I wonder if he ever flew any Young Eagles in that deathtrap? He was certainly willing to risk YOUR life. Scary.

As Waiter suggested, I hope a little honor creeps back in and he does the right thing. Not likely, however, as it doesn't sound like there was much honor to start with. Ah, well... karma is a b*tch. It sounds like it's already catching up with him.

Please advise Avery Sisco (ez.org webmaster), David Orr, Terry Schubert, and anyone else that this "expert" might tap when trying to unload his "aircraft" in the future. You can be certain that the rest of us will be watching this forum, eBay, barnstormers, trade-a-plane, etc. for his "aircraft" to pop up again.

Best of luck!

D
Title: Re: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: Jack on August 01, 2006, 05:43:55 PM: Quote from: "allen"
20
The seller was right; it was a very expensive and painful lesson. For you buyers out there, learn from my mistakes.
·

Freaking bummer. I learned long ago you have to talk to the local pilots to get a good feel for an aircraft. Which started in my Navy days when I was dropped off at a field and had to fly a bird out. One of my tricks was checking out the heads/latrines. If they were fairly clean it was a good sign that the birds were maintained fairly well. Throw in a long preflight and a thorough checkout of the logbooks. Generally they were OK, but I was still lied too about aircraft conditions.

I ferried aircraft that were one time moves for being bent somewhat, picked up new aircraft from the factory, birds in and out of overhaul, and squadron moves. Ones you had to watch were the freaking overhauled ones. They hadn't been flown much and some serious work had been done on them.

In this business, it's good to be living and learned something.

Jack
Title: right stuff
Post by: eric r on August 01, 2006, 09:00:00 PM: You did the right thing in walking away and the money will haunt him to the grave and hopefully beyond. I had considered the same aircraft, but after a phone call or two, I didn't even get close to considering it. It looked like (and sounded like) junk, and apparently it is.
Title: people
Post by: eric r on August 01, 2006, 09:02:39 PM: My wise Grandfather once said: "People in general are no good. If you don't believe that, then just get to really know them". Cynical? Maybe.
It sounds like his "friends" finally discovered the true personality.
Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: Tom on August 02, 2006, 09:37:37 AM: Allen,,

do us all a favor and post the link to the ad of the mentioned plane. .

Hopefully it will prevent another buyer from thinking he/she is getting an airworthy/SAFE plane.

Remember its OK to sell Junk when it is represented as JUNK! and from the sounds of things this plane falls in that category!

If your ever in Calgary,, Id be glad to take you for a ride

Tom Watkins

VE N08TC now C-GZRT
Title: Plane
Post by: Charles Davis on August 02, 2006, 11:21:35 AM: Allen,

Thank you for taking the time to document your experiences.

You did the right thing by walking away, as hard as that must have been.

Sorry for your bad experience.

I'd highly recommend contacting David Orr if you want to purchase a flying EZ.

Thanks again for your frank and complete statement of the facts.
Title: Dangerous Airplane !
Post by: GlennBob on August 03, 2006, 12:54:02 AM: Allen,

Boy, . .. seems everyone wants to weigh in on this guy. Believe it or not, . .I was considering this same aircraft ! ! I talked with this guy for quite a while on the phone. I was going to schedule a flight out to look it over and also consider another plane in Arizona. I also read what your seller wrote about the failed transaction and he made it sound like you wimped out on the deal. Nice to get the true story. This guy will not grow a conscience, since he is living in another parallel universe. He does not operate from the biblical basis that most Americans have been raised with. He has twice offered to send me his own version of HIS bible. This guy is scary ! ! Sorry to hear this lesson cost you $2k, . but in light of all things, it really is a small price to pay for your life ! ! I did a similar foolish thing. I did even worse ! ! I not only sent a deposit , . . .I BOUGHT the plane sight unseen based only on the sellers word and HIS word of what others said about the plane ! ! He too had some problems with the plane, and the logs weren't quite up to snuff, but I was able to get a friend of his to ferry it home to me in Wis. The ferry pilot was nervous, but did fly it and it flew well. But there were many things that were not done well or right. The seller refused to let me fly it home and would not sell it to me if I planned to fly it home. He wanted me to trailer it from Arizona to Wis. ! ! Now I know why. He didn't trust it ! He claimed he wouldn't let me fly it because I didn't have canard experience, but I know why he wouldn't now. Allen, don't let the dream die ! These planes are a blast ! ! But you must be extra vigilant on the side of safety. They can kill you quickly if you don't respect them . Best wishes ! ! Glennbob
Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: billyko on August 03, 2006, 01:26:19 AM: I was in his hangar for about 2 hours. I did not ride on it, becuase it was late afternoon. I thanks him for all the infromation he share about long ez. It was very helpful. When he mention about his other Bible, I begin lost interest in his plane. Finally, I got another long ez with IFR for a very reasonable price. Thank God for His protection.

N191PS
Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: allen on August 03, 2006, 10:43:51 AM: The seller had written up a version of events the day after I left and posted them to another forum. One of the guys on the field called me to let me know should I wish to refute his account. The person who called me said that he and the others on the field got a distinct impression that the seller was out to cover his own butt. Much like how he advertised his plane, his modus was to omit details that were not favorable to his cause. The seller emailed his account of events and also included some of the replies he received from other forum participants as a way of telling me that he was right about the transaction. Obviously our respective commentaries will be biased.

After everything was over and I returned to Virginia I was surprised by the number of emails I received once the word was out about what happened. Others who had bad experiences with this seller recounted what happened with them. As I mentioned earlier, he apparently has a bit of a history with this in one form or another.

Some excerpts from his account:

“The first red flag: My buyer was very upset because the EZ lost the
left magneto the evening before he arrived. His lack of experience
meant he did not realize how lucky he was.”
Quite the opposite. When I arrived we discussed the dead magneto. I made the comment than that I was glad it had happened here. My concern was who was going to pay for the work. By this time he had skillfully backed out of installing the intercom and had offered to have it put in at my expense. I did not want to have another miscommunication. He uncomfortably agreed that the cost would be on him for the magneto.

“The next red flag: He kept asking everyone how to fly a Long-EZ.
The intro booklet ("2000 Ways To Fly a Canard"), which he said
he had read several times, combines over 175 years of EZ-pilots'
experience for maximum benefit. It did not take me long to
comment, "I hope the last person he talks to gives him good advice."

“My son recently purchased a Long-EZ. His
experience transitioning from a Cherokee to the Long-EZ caused
him to suggest using an "Orientation." I will add the Orientation
as an addendum for "2000 Ways to Fly a Canard" and request posting
it on (a website) under Articles.”

The pilots that I met would ask about my previous flight experience. They would recount what it was like when they first fly a Long-Ez and what I should expect. The seller discouraged me from speaking with other pilots as well as the mechanic. Now I know why. He wanted me to only read material approved by him (or he had written) and only speak about transitioning to the Long with pilots he picked. (In this case it was his son who was out of town.)

“The next red flag: He seemed more interested in getting rides than
learning. A former EZ pilot gave him a ride in a Lancair. I
mentioned it would not help him in the Long-EZ, but his comment,
"It will be an experience flying in a different airplane."

As I said before, he objected to me speaking with the mechanic. This left me to join the banter with the other pilots milling about the hanger. The seller sat in a chair in the hanger. We were not able to really get around the plane while the two mechanics had the motor off. I flew with one of his friends for about 40minutes that day. Who in their right mind would turn down actual Long-Ez flight time in a plane with an intercom in this situation? The seller’s plane was down. I was not supposed to speak with the mechanic. We could not get on or in the plane. His paperwork was back at his house.
To his credit he did not know what I am about to say here, but I did not fly in a Lancair while I was there. That was the excuse given to him when some other pilots took me aside to have the intervention. I did not want to incriminate who those pilots were since they were friends of his. As of this writing the other pilots have decided that they do not care if he knows who they are.

“At one point, he decided that the lack of certain details made him
wary of the experimental aircraft, and he felt he should not buy this
Long-EZ. My reaction was immediate. "If you are not comfortable,
for any reason, do not buy the plane.”

It was most certainly the lack of “certain details” that made me uncomfortable. Simple details such as who really did the conditional inspection. What does each of the unlabelled switches do? (He should know, he has been doing the conditionals and had the plane for 17 years right? He did not know, but made several guesses.) Why is there a T.V. cable carrying power to your starter?(I was not to worry about it. It had not caught fire in the past 17 years so it was obviously safe for flight.) Why are there so many missing fasteners on your external cowls? (His response: Burt had over designed the plane and that all of those fasteners were not needed. As the heads would break off of screws he would use filler to just cover up the hole.) Why does the control surfaces stick when deflected? (He states that it was normal.) What caused this hole to rub through the bottom of the right wing? (He insisted nothing had caused it and promptly filled it in with filler as well.) Why are your logbooks so out of date? Have you been doing maintnance? (His response was that he tracks all of his engine maintenance on a computer spread sheet. Not to worry about the hours in the log anyway since the hours would be inaccurate. The Hobbs meter reads incorrectly. He was not sure if it was fast or slow, but just that it was wrong since the day he bought the plane so the logs were of no importance.) Why doesn’t the landing light work? (He said it hasn’t worked in years and has since kind of frozen into the retracted position. Not to worry about it.) What does this bungee cord do? (He said it was to hold the gear up. His method for doing this was to distract yourself during the initial climb out, a critical phase of flight, by removing your right foot from the rudder and using your right knee to hold the gear handle in place while you grab the cord and secure the handle with it. Again, nothing to worry about.) This wingtip light is loose! Is that just RTV holding it in place? (Then don't touch it or it will fall off. Never touch things during a preflight, it stresses them and they can fail. Now shake the wing...)Remember, I was told that the plane was in excellent condition, but just needed paint.
The list of “certain details” is quit long.
His first response was agitation and to inform me that I had just lost $2k.

“After the flight in the morning, he raised another red flag. After
descending from over 6,000 feet to about 4,500 feet, I added power
with a very lean mixture. His comment, "I was very nervous when
the engine ran rough." The rough engine lasted for as long as it
took me to change the fuel mixture. However, give him credit, he
flew the plane very well in a long climb with right and left turns.
That was a green flag.”

Interesting. His first response when we landed and I asked him about this was that it never happened. Now it has not only happened, but the event has a perfectly good explanation. Point of interest; the engine ran so rough for so long that we lost over 1500’ according to my GPS and I had started to look for a clear place to put her down.
My logbook may show less than 100 hours, but I have been flying since I was a teenager on civilian aircraft as a passenger (Glassair, Lancair, Piper, Cessna, Citation, Pitts, T-28…) and trained in the military as an Aircrewmen (read: not a pilot) on P-3’s where we trained extensively on identifying emergencies and how to deal with them. Being in an airplane is not new to me.

Thanks for the credit for my piloting abilities. Although he went on to dispute them as a reason for me to stay in conventional aircraft.

“But he was still going to buy the plane. When he returned to my
condo, about five o'clock, I said, "Let's review the paper work."
He pulled out his phone, started a conversation, walked out the
door, and disappeared for three hours. That was a little red flag.”

His account is a little out of order. This situation is when I returned to his place after his friends had spoken with me for well over an hour. I had already spoken with my wife and made arrangements for the flight home. His request to review the paperwork began with a request for the check. I suspect he knew the gig was up and needed to get me to part with the check before I learned any more about the plane. On several occasions he made it clear that he did not like me speaking with others unless he had picked who I was to speak with. He really did not like to answer questions.

“Final comment: Unless a person feels comfortable, they should not
get a Long-EZ. This was my first experience under these
conditions, and it was a learning experience. For over 17 years, I
thought those other Long-EZ pilots were a strange breed.

Now, I looked in a mirror!”

I most certainly agree!

I fully expected to receive some flames from his friends after posting this. Much to my surprise not one person has posted or privately emailed me in defense of his actions or as a character witness. To the contrary I have received several private emails outlining transactions that others have had with him.

“I appreciate your interest in my Long-EZ and the financial sacrifice
you made in your effort. The experience will serve you well when you
are ready.”

It already has. My hope is that the money stolen from me will in return save another life.

Yes the seller is a VERY eccentric fellow. I intentionally left out his political views, his religious convictions, and many other interesting tidbits, as they are not really relevant. I will admit that he spoke extensively about each subject and he had sent me his famous Bible.
Title: Bible talk
Post by: xbirdone on August 04, 2006, 06:42:01 AM: His OWN Bible? Next thing you know he'll be flying his Long EZ into tall buildings. Just be thankful that he didn't do it with you in the backseat. I wonder where the airplane is now? I was considering looking at the aircraft, and now I think I would offer the value of a working used magneto and a serviceable used harness. Less what it would take to transport it of course ... so for a few thousand dollars (paid in advance to me) non-refundable deposit, I would take the aircraft and deliver it to Mojave where it could be cut up and placed in the dumpster.
Title: FAA response
Post by: allen on October 19, 2006, 07:14:12 AM: My attorney received a recent phone call from the FAA regarding this aircraft.

“I just spoke with the FAA. They said that they looked into your complaint, went out to inspect the airplane, closed the case on your complaint, and opened immediately an ENFORCEMENT case. The FAA is going after this case big time. They stated emphatically to me that someone could be killed trying to fly the airplane.”

   For those who questioned my account of events and the condition of the aircraft, this should be proof enough that the plane was junk. Those who “know the plane and have flown it themselves” I thought you might want to thank that angle on your shoulder. I have.

   At the very least, it won’t kill anybody anytime soon.
Title: Thanks Allen
Post by: shooter13 on November 02, 2006, 10:42:04 AM: Allen thanks. I am a new member here. I have been interested in EZ's since I used to volunteer at Sun-n-Fun(damn growing up in Lakeland was good!) I am starting to look at purchasing a Long EZ as well. I would love to build but I don't have any place to build that I think I will realistically stick with it. Your story is not only interesting to me, it is extremely valuable and frightening. I hope you get back to flying. I have been out of it now for only 3 months and miss it terribly. Since you have written the 2000 ways to not buy a canard, has anyone written the One way TO buy a canard?

Good Luck!
Title: 2000 ways to not buy a canard
Post by: Chairboy on November 02, 2006, 04:26:24 PM: Well, that's kinda awkward to answer.... there's an article at http://ez.org/articles.htm called '2000 ways to fly a canard' that happens to cover a lot of the things in the LongEZ system that you need to be aware of, but, um.... it's kinda written by the guy who was selling the canard to the gentleman who started this thread.

Tricky subject.

Check out that link, there are some other very useful articles too that may assist you.
Title: How to buy a canard
Post by: Charles Davis on November 02, 2006, 05:07:04 PM: I'd highly recommend you go through the local EZ group or David Orr http://www.canardfinder.com/

IMHO:
If you LOVE building, then buy an orphaned project.

If you want to fly, but a completed and proven plan, recommended by David or experienced EZ builders/flyers.

And if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

If I had to do it over again, I'd have bought a flying Vari or an 0-235 Long and put a 0-320 on it, and spent my building time going over the plane nose to spinner, fixing and upgrading.