Hangar Flying => Hangar Flying => Topic started by: Dave in Eugene on February 25, 2006, 02:34:21 PM
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Dave in Eugene on February 25, 2006, 02:34:21 PM
Heading to Vegas for this coming week and looking for shelter for my Long EZ. If anybody has a tips or a corner in a hanger I'd love to know.
Trying to leave this afternoon..business permitting to beat the storm track lined up off of the coast.. Should be in Vegas on Sunday... my cell is 541-501-8980. thanks,
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Dave in Eugene on February 27, 2006, 01:10:37 PM
Vegas Baby!
Eugene to Vegas.
Eugene to Redding 1.8 hours Redding to Vasalia 2.7 hours (vasalia just south of Fresno) Vasalia to Boulder City 2.2 (Boulder City is just south and east of Vegas)
Here is a quick review of the flight.
Very exciting for me as I have had 408 EZ for over a year and the longest flight I have had the opportunity to take it in is was about 250 miles...
Watched the satellite and decided if I could get done with work early I would try to get to Redding a night early cause the high pressure was giving way and the dual storm track was lined up for a direct hit of the North West.... My Sweetie was ready at 3 PM ..Wheels up at 4:10 - on the ground in Redding at 6:10ish. Pretty smooth flight with high overcast.. and down to 100kts ground speed as the front was pushing in hard against us ..Spent some time with my down jacket and mittens all over me... The women at the front desk asks "Can we fill it up for you?" I said "Sure would you like me to supervise the refueling" she assured me that that was not necessary and arranged a ride to La Quinta in Redding for us. I said that I would like 15 gallons in the right tank... We arrive at the the hotel with a message from the airport. Dusty didn't understand which side was which... the propeller in the back and all.... so 3 gallons in on the left and 28 gallons in the other...I told her that I would forgive them if the had a clean hose and a couple of buckets ready in the morning....Nothing like the taste of 100LL for breakfast... got a mouth full...burped it for the next 4 hours...I will supervise all refueling no matter what from this day forward...
Upon pre-flight noticed that the large bolt that holds the wheel pant to the wheel was flat gone....stop...find parts on Sunday at the Jet Center...Met Mike who was generous with his shop and parts bin... tried to get it started..couldn't...off with the wheel pant...yep as I expected broken off stud... backed 8EZ to the shop and with air power drill and "easy-out" had us in business in short order..Would not take a dollar... liked the plane.
Picked up Flight Following from Sarcramento approach and enjoyed the company of jet pilots to recips all bitching about turbulence.. Again 35-40 knots on the nose and amazingly consistent bounces... We tightened down our shoulder straps when we both hit our heads on t he canopy...Something nice about listening to King Air pilots talking about getting their ass-kicked when we were too...
Redding to Vasalia... Center says "Long EZ 8 EZ your grounds speed is at 100 knots are you sure that you don't want to rent a car and drive there...you'd get there faster.....heheheheh" I say "' Go easy my wife is in the back"...a bull-ride went from 5,500 to 3,500 to try and find less wind and smoother air....not...flew between the haze layer at 2,500 and the overcast at 10,000. Evaluated fuel and had 10 gallons decided I wanted more for the flight over the Sierra's... so picked Vasalia...6,500' long and no control tower seems like an EZ choice.
Vasalia to Vegas..
I am cruising at 7,500 as center tells me that a Cessna 172 had experienced a "Mountain wave" at 7.5 and turned around... I told them that I would climb to 9.5 to which he responded that he had sent several planes over at that altitude with no reports... Noticed 700' feet per minute up in level flight on the west side and 500' per minute in a climbing attitude on the east side... lost 500' before we were out of it... to be expected given the winds... Centers advice appreciated. Now racing across the desert at 160 knots...Something nice about looking down at a highway traffic jam when clocking close to 200mph.
Tony from Vegas did his best to find shelter for our plane and was very helpful in directing us to Boulder City Airport... A stress free place to land. Thanks Tony..
(Still looking for shelter..if it is easy)
Flight following was almost seamless and very professional except for 1 good Wise-crack.
Great flight...Looking forward to flying home...
Thanks everybody...
Dave
Title: Vegas
Post by: easyrider on March 02, 2006, 11:38:27 AM
Dave I have been waiting with baited breath for details of your return flight. Did you spend the gas money at the tables? Easyrider
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Dave in Eugene on March 02, 2006, 06:07:21 PM
Almost made it home.... airplane in the big hangar at K-Falls Hertz to Eugene for work...today... More later...thanks for asking.. Dave
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: tonyslongez on March 02, 2006, 07:44:59 PM
Dave
Glad you made it home safe buddy. Great talking with you. Next time, we have to get together so you can see the N.T.S.B. crash site that is in my garage :lol: Sorry we couldn't get you a hanger. There are plenty available now that everyone is back in town. Give me a call about a week before you come to town and maybe we'll have better luck. do you have any pics of your bird and the flight over?
Tony
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Dave in Eugene on March 03, 2006, 12:45:24 AM
Vegas to Eugene ...(which ended up Vegas to Klamath Falls)
Direct Carson City, Direct Klamath Falls
Boulder City (near Vegas) to Carson City (just south of Reno) 342 nm 2.4 hours (average 142. knts) Carson City to Klamath Falls 220 nm 1.5 hours (average 146 knts)
Checking weather in Vegas a day before scheduled departure made some clear decision about leaving early based on a well developed systems scheduled to arrive in the northwest on Friday. "Honey, pack your bag"...
Wheels up at 1 pm... Later than I would like. It was crisp, cold and clear. Had all of our gear and 320 pounds of human body and 33 gallons of fuel on board... I think airport altitude was around 2,500. I am pretty sure I saw more than 1/2 of the 6,500' runway before feeling light. Again I dreamed of 160 hp... Sure I would like the extra speed but I am just not a fan of watching the departure end of the runway coming at me at 70-80 knts.
Had a hard time getting through to Las Vegas approach and was paranoid about the intensity of the airspace around that area. So spent way-to-long circling south of the airport to get cleared for a north departure. Finally picked them up at 6,500' . Guess the rocks were in the way. Great views climbing out over redrocks and watching the expanse of desert unroll in front of us. The Sierras like a great wall on the left and a broken layer of cumulus between 8,000' 10,500 ft. We climbed through to 12,500... It was great. I have never flown so high for so long. Dipping below 12.5 occasionally with the air currents and then being gently lifted as we watched rolling cumulus erupting beside us...really cool. and...Ka ka ka Kold... OAT was about 19F... bundled heavily. mittens over mechanics gloves.. Down jacked (ala Tom Staggs...worn backwards having pulled it out in flight) over pile jacket, ski pants and Sorrells... Dropped into Carson City to thaw out and score enough fuel for the rest of the ride home...Thankfully the front is colder than the back... Pam was still having fun.
(Side note 100ll $3.20/gallon in Boulder city & $3.10 gallon in Carson City...what a deal...)
As we neared Klamath Falls time was 5 PMish.... 10 gallons on board...55 minutes ETA to home base, o-dark-thirty thinking would be about 6:30-6:45. Given the forecast and the intensity of the dark flying was not what I wanted to do... checked flight watch... Eugene still reporting broken but scheduled to rain at 8 PM... pondering choices I watch the broken around me start to tighten up... only one good hole infront of me (still lots behind me) I decide to go look at 7.5k to see if I could squeak a pass underneath back into the Willamette Valley....7.5 turns out to be 6.0k before clear VFR and it is rocking down there... K falls reports 27 knots gusting to 40. Options ... Climb back up and hope that Eugene holds broken for 55 minutes and if not have about 30 minutes of fuel before quiet or... land in K falls and call it a great day...
It was a great day..
K- Falls has a squadron of F-16s and a 10,000' runway. Tower called wind 3 times on my final approach... all high 20's...15 degrees off of runway center line...not bad....
K Fall also has a giant hangar with maybe 30 planes in it.. It is like a plane conference.. I hope 408 EZ is behaving...
Looking for a break to bring her home.
All the best y'all
Dave
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: tonyslongez on March 03, 2006, 06:09:36 PM
Dave
good thing you left. I'm at the airport right now (McCarren Intl.)
Clear skies
winds are 28 gusting to 40 I hate working in this stuff.
Tony
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Drew on March 05, 2006, 08:15:27 AM
In 2000, I was doing a PCS move from Pax River to Point Mugu. Flew my Longez out there to base it in Camarillo. I arrived in the middle of the Santa Annas. Forty knots on the surface---luckily right down the runway. It was actually a pretty difficult approach and landing even with the wind right down the runway. It required a lot of pitch deflection. Seemed like it was full stick deflection fore and aft----maybe had something to do with gusting wind. I was kind of worried leaving my plane on the ramp---sure was dancing around on the tiedowns.
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Dave in Eugene on March 05, 2006, 07:42:45 PM
.9 of an hour from K-Falls to Creswell (just south of Eugene). Glad to have her home.. my engine hates to start in the cold... got to find out what she likes.
Spent an hour under the hood today with a CFII. Shot an approach (1st time ever) getting vectors from Cascade approach to the ILS. Darned if it didn't work out just right... Took the hood off and ...was looking right down the runway...to cool.
Hope to sit for my Instrument written in the next 2 weeks. Passing practice tests (barely) at this moment.
Dave
Title: Business Help
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Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Snappy on April 06, 2006, 08:12:01 AM
Dave, too bad I read about the return trip toooo late! Next time you or any other Rutan drivers needs an overnight home in KFalls, call me! I have my long hangared and safe with room for another nose down parker. They do nest quite nicely!
541 892 7531
Glad you had a good trip! I also have rented a car and drove home from Susanville when the passes were to high and the ceiling too low. On that trip, Dave (rest in peace) let me share his hangar for a couple days and took me to lunch at the casino before departing.
I remember a quote from Jack, "tis better to error on the side of safety"
Title: Vegas baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 06, 2006, 08:46:12 AM
Hi, Snappy, Dave, Al, and others in OR
I hope to have a flying Longeze soon and will be looking for places to go that are not TOO far from Yelm (near Olympia) WA.
My wife has relatives in central OR.
Also we have a motorhome and have been going through Klamath Falls, Eugene, and Portland for several years on the way to and/or back from the Reno Air Races. Once was stuck in Portland for 18 hours. Luckily my wife knows all of the Ercoupe people around.
So we will hope that you do not mind having visitors. We have lots of stories (my wife is a pilot, too and once was married to a Boeing engineer) and are willing to listen to your stories, too.
"There I was at -----"
When we have the motor home all we need is a parking spot at the curb....
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Snappy on April 06, 2006, 10:29:22 PM
You've got my number. Give me a call if you're coming through KFalls! Lots and lots of airplane stories to hear/tell over the campfire.
I will be headed for Seattle and a week of work as soon as the wx clears. What is your closest airport???
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 06, 2006, 11:37:34 PM
Hi, Snappy
Well, we LIVE on an airport - Western Air Park. However it is better for canard pilots with a lot of experience landing. I will not land here for a long, long time.
The runway is 2,845' x 30'. Good asphalt, just awfully short for a canard. And we have VERY high trees at the west end. Landing is usually on 27. There may be wind from the south and the houses and trees make that a rather inconsistant wind.
Email me at bruce@ywave.com. There is more (Good and bad). :D
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Drew on April 07, 2006, 05:37:44 AM
It is good you are being conservative---but you will eventually be able to work yourself down to 2000 ft. And...when you are comfortable landing on 2000 ft strips, the limiting factor will be takeoff (if you have an O235-----if you have a bigger engine, no problem). That narrow runway will sure give you a ground rush----that takes some getting use to!!
Title: Vegas baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 07, 2006, 09:31:50 AM
Hi Drew
Takeoff is no problem. There is no fence at the east end. If you have 1" of altitude when the runway ends, you instantly get 200' of altitude in the next second. East end is like an aircraft carrier. I have a O320 engine.
We did have a Seabee "fly" off the end without enough airspeed a year ago. Broke a 6" tree in half on the way down. :(
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 07, 2006, 09:34:10 AM
We have a twin Cessna, an AT6, and an Extra that operate out of Western Air Park. :D
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Drew on April 07, 2006, 08:52:42 PM
I am pretty conservative--as I can see that you are too. I would start at 4000 ft and work your way down. 85 mph is what I used for approaches unless it was a calm day (no gusting winds) and I would come in at 75. Don't solve "too highs" with dumping the nose (plane acclerates, speed brake retracts, plane accelerates more). Solve "too highs" with first pulling the power all the way to idle. If this won't completely solve it, stomp on both rudders. If this is still not enough, wag the wings 45 deg left and right fairly fast to dump the lift vector (this will keep you tracking towards the runway centerline (don't do this on base leg----final only) and will really increase the rate of descent.) Of course you have to stop wagging the wings on short final to land. If this is STILL not enough, this is not your day----go around.
The key to landing on short runways is to land on speed-----and at the short end of the runway-----the runway behind you that you did not land on is not helping you out.
Also, if you have weakspongy brakes---fix them.
Your 320 will be awsome----you will have plenty of power to do a whole lot of things.
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 08, 2006, 09:29:10 AM
Hi Drew
Thanks for the details of your technique. I eventually will try them.
Western is fine for anyone with GOOD landing skills. If you are too high OR too low, you have a problem. The approach to 27 is TOTALLY clear. But, if you are too low, you can hit a near vertical wall of dirt. Just like an aircraft carrier - except you cannot go around - we have really tall trees at the west end.
I have REALLY GOOD brakes. The dropoff at the west end of 27 is about 6' to the street.
My wife did an intentional ground loop without damaging the airplane (not a Longeze)(not any airplane that you know about)(experimental). :D
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Snappy on April 08, 2006, 10:14:42 AM
Wow! With all the trees, dirt and wind shear off the buildings, how do the T-6 and Twin do??
I also use 2000' as a rule of thumb for safe take offs and landings. Factor in fuel/pax load, density altitude and wind and I've done 1800' without problems. For brakes, I replaced the Clevelands with Robbie Grove's 2 years ago and stopping has never been a problem since.
I have found that for short field takeoffs, I do better by maintaining neutral elevator until 65, then rotating at 70. Keeping the drag at a minimum while gaining speed helps until rotation. I fly 120 on downwind, 100 base, 90 final and 80 over the fence. Try not to use the board untill short final. Touchdown is right about 72 with long runways using Bert's "Canard on the horizon" viewpoint. By holding a slower downwind, the whole landing sequence is slower and less apt to get out of hand. Also, by keeping the speed down using board and rudders as needed takes care of any excess speed. I also use full forward slips to increase decent rate and found that in my airplane, it works as well as 45 degree dutch rolls.
I heard once that brother Dick has landed much shorter using the "Under the Canard" view, but that is probably just rumor? I've thought about it but am concerned about hitting my prop at high angle of attack.
By the way, I'll be flying comercial Tuesday to Seattle and headed home Thursday. Maybe I'll stop by and eyeball the strip.
Bruce, is this wx ever going to break???
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Drew on April 08, 2006, 07:09:32 PM
If you get too slow in a longez you will lose quite a bit of roll authority. 75 mph in calm/smooth was ok for me----but not enough roll authority in non-calm/smooth wind. You can get yourself into a "yikes!" moment when you ask for aileron on final and the plane does not want to give you any. :o At 85, I had no problems.
A observation I am noticing between the Longez and Cozy MKIV... In the Longez, I would fly it in just about any kind of wind condition (up to 22 kts direct crosswind (small rudders too!)) and just about any kind of gusting conditions-----and feel right at home. In the Cozy, the plane seems more effected by the crosswind and gusty conditions---I am not nearly as comfortable. At this point, don't know if it is really a difference in the aircraft-----or a difference in my time in aircraft (Long>600 hrs, Cozy<100 hrs).
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Snappy on April 08, 2006, 11:17:10 PM
I know what you mean about getting comfortable and 'in your element'. I think it takes me at least 100 hours to become competent in a new type. More than that to explore the envelope and understand your go/nogo perameters.
I use to fly hang gliders and watch pilots launch in marginal conditions. Sometimes one in four or five would 'eat it' and end up being hauled down the mountain. I watched a guy leap into 20-25kt wind off the cliff face and do a half loop right back into his vehicle that was parked some 100 feet back. For me, I'd always take the chicken way out and come back on the perfect day for the perfect flight.
Got to follow and watch a redtail hawk from about 150 feet above and behind once. Their wings are marvels of control in all flight regeims. This guy was looking for dinner and didn't notice me until I got too close, then peeled off and I was on my own again, but he lead me right to the thermals.
Spectacular flight!
Title: Vegas Baby!
Post by: Bruce Hughes on April 09, 2006, 09:26:17 AM
Hi, Snappy
I need your phone #. Call me at 808-250-0939 or reply to
bruce@ywave.com
We are about 2 hours south of Seattle if you are coming by rent-a-car.
You probably would enjoy seeing the Museum of Flight more than seeing Western Air Park, unless you have seen the Museum multiple times.
Will be glad to have you by. Get prepared for a messy hangar.