Hangar Flying

Hangar Flying => Hangar Flying => Topic started by: MikeD on May 30, 2007, 09:03:21 AM

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: MikeD on May 30, 2007, 09:03:21 AM

Hi all,

I'm a new kid on the block (first post) and would like to let everyone know how interesting and informative this forum is. But first a little history:

I gained my PPL in 1982 while living in South Africa and done about 250 hrs P1.  Returned to the U.K. in 1987 and found the cost of flying here horrendous (still is!) so I took up Gliding instead. I progressed to becoming an instructor and have done approx 900 hrs and many, many cross country flights (300km). Then I bought into a Fournier RF5 Touring Motor Glider syndicate after re-validating the PPL licence again.

In 2006 I managed to get the syndicate to embark on a complete overhaul and restoration project of the RF5, it was getting old (37 yrs) and showing its age.  We have just finished the restoration taking 1150 hrs between 6 syndicate members, I done most of the fabric covering (Stits system - USA) and all the painting which took me 400 hrs. (1150 divided by 6 is 400... isn't it!). Anyway, the story continues...

The hands on and building thing hooked me again, I trained as an Engineer (Transport and Marine) and moved sideways into I.T. in the early days when Bill Gates was still working in his garage. So I genuinely miss the hands on thing and the satisfaction of creating something of true value. Then it happened, ebay Item number: 280108046078 Long-EZ came up for sale again (first buyer backed out), I just couldn't help myself.

Things I'm doing/have done:

My garage is being extended (I told my wife the roof was leaking anyway :-) and insulated/heated for winter work.
 
I have yet to transport the unfinished Long-EZ back home.

I have done many hours of research on this forum into what engines etc. and have managed to get a completely overhauled Lycoming O-320-B3B (will be test run on a dynamometer) with all ancillaries etc.
 
I have visited a local Long-EZ owner/builder and have picked his brains (invaluable information).

Contacted all the PFA (UK) inspectors who will oversee the finishing of the project.

Subscribed to the CSA newsletter and have ordered some back-issues.

Researching the paint system, I think I will be going with 'Flight Gloss'/ 'Aero-Thane' (USA) finish.

Bought some basic instruments on e-bay (nearly new at a fraction of the price)


Some questions for you experienced people:  

Is there a definitive list of Long-EZ mods. I see that there is one for the VE in a CSA back-issue.

What would you consider to be the main mods that would improve the Long-EZ at the pre-painting stage (like electric nose gear or the Efficient Rudder mod).

Coming from many years of gliding, I'm wondering why I haven't seen any pictures of a Long-EZ with the strake/wing joints taped! They all appear to have a small gap.


MikeD

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Drew on May 30, 2007, 05:03:55 PM

My favorite mods
-long nose
-brake master cylinders (laydown) upfront
-electric nose gear on longez not really necessary----however, it lets you partially retract to give you straight tracking in the event of wheel brake failure
-electric trim
-O320 with beefed up engine mount extrusions, ram air, fuel injection, downdraft cooling
-pneumatic canopy stay
-push-pull throttle and mixture
-removable panel to get to the back of the instruments
-thigh support for back seat
-internal fuel sumps (either under the rearseat armrests or in the rear seat thigh support)
-big rudders
-engine monitor (spend the money to monitor all of your EGT, CHTs on one instrument---most will also do every other temp you want too)
-metal (.093 or so thick) instrument panel
-breakers and important switches (like mags or elect ign) mount on separate panel on right longeron.  It is very dry there.  The main panel tends to get wet in the rain.  Think about what electric stuff you don't want to short out
-VGs or Ronz canard
-gear leg fairings and wheelpants
-nice aerodynamic cowls


I used glider tape at the intersections on my Longez.  My Cozy currently has silicone in the gaps

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: MikeD on June 01, 2007, 08:02:03 AM

Thanks for the info Drew, it looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me.

Another very basic question (I don't have the hull or the paperwork yet!),  I have a problem in getting the basic hull into my garage with the main U/C wheel struts on (narrow access point ).  Can they be easily removed and replaced quickly without too much work?  I can handle the strakes width of 114 inches by canting the fuselage over at 45 deg  but I'm a little restricted in height, hence wanting to remove main struts.

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Waiter on June 01, 2007, 09:47:09 AM

Drews list just about covers it.

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a couple three wheel dollies.  Put one dollie under each main, then you can move the fuselage sideways, around corners, etc.

Waiter

Title: Restoration of Long-ez project
Post by: Bruce Hughes on June 03, 2007, 10:14:20 AM

Hi Mike.   Beware of making a lot of mods.   They can take years to do.
I speak from experience.   The Longeze is still not flying although
I have worked on it for 15 years (not entirely fulltime -there are
other things in one's life as well).   The major mistake was having an
airplane ready to fly and then going to a large engine.

The only WORTHWHILE mods in my opinion:

1. Start with the O320 engine as you plan to do
2. Longer nose is ESSENTIAL for any decent sized engine for
    weight and balance.   You will need a GOOD SIZED battery.
    Get it as far forward as possible.
3. Do a FEW of the other mods but don't get too involved in mods.
4. Mods not mentioned earlier:
    a foot rest in the copilot/passenger 's space.  The most uncomfortable
    seat that I have ever used was the passenger's seat in a Longeze.
    That includes several rides in several different Longezes.
    As soon as I had my own project, I experimented.   A small,
    removable "shelf" where you normally put your feet helps a
    lot.   It still provides storage space for some small items
    (which you CANNOT reach in flight).   These must be light for
    the sake of a reasonable weight/balance.
5. Put the headphone jacks for the passenger BEHIND and to the right
    of the passenger so the cords are not constantly in the way.
6. Be sure that the upper cowling will clear the oil dip stick.   Mine
    always rubbed so I forced it.   One day the dip stick slipped right
    out and got a 90 degree bend in the stick part.   Bummer.
7. Drain holes at the lowest point in the nose (probably there are 4
   "lowest" points.   These are not necessary if it never rains where
   you live <grin>
8. Stainless steel fitting under the nose (close to the drain holes)
    so you can easily tie it down.    Of course you need the wing
    tiedown holes too.   These fittings are U shaped and have threads
    on the 2 "legs" of the U.   I think boat supply places have them.
9. Be VERY cautious about putting a fuel sump under the passenger
    or in the arm rests.   You don't have ANY room under the arm
    rests.   AND the space under the passenger probably is totally
    inadequate for a sump.   My passenger's space is enough for
    a passenger who is about 5' 5" AND is willing to sit on the FLOOR
    with only a very thin pad undereneath.   There is no such thing
    as a "thigh support" in my Longeze; just the thin pad.

Bruce Hughes

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: MikeD on June 03, 2007, 03:20:55 PM

Bruce,

Your list and advice is very informative and will save me a lot of work, thanks.  I looks like the first one is going to be the longer nose followed by the longer rudder mod.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I might have to remove the main gear to get it through a narrow(ish) carport (width 92 inches x 86 inches high) into my workshop. Is it much of a problem to remove this?

Mike

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Drew on June 03, 2007, 06:00:02 PM

My Longez originally had no thigh support for the rear cockpit (as per plans).  You basically sit on the floor with your knees in the air with nothing supporting your thighs.  After a while, the small patch of your backside that is sitting on the floor will get somewhat sore.  I made a mod that added a thigh support.  In the end, you are not sitting any taller with the thigh support---your butt is still on the floor of the plane---but you do have something for your thighs to rest on.

This link:
http://www.berkut13.com/berkut20.htm
shows more or less what my thight support looked like---except mine was not plumbed to be a sump.  You can see that on this particular page that James ditches the thigh support sump for the under armrest sump.  Now that I think of it, the armrest location in a Longez may be too small---but ok for a Berkut.  I currently have under armrest sumps in my Cozy.

One other way to get drag reduction on the sumps is to blend them all the way back thru the cowl as many others have done.

Title: Restoration of Long-ez project
Post by: Bruce Hughes on June 04, 2007, 01:39:20 AM

Hi Drew

I wonder what your thigh support looks like.

I wanted enough support for my whole body and a sitting rather
than lying down position.

I made a VERY LIGHT-weigh back support and put hinges on it.
The hinges are attached exactly at the bottom of the aft bulkhead
so the back support goes nearly straight up from the base of the
bulkhead.   The back is flexibly held in place by 2 pieces of Al tubing
which contain strong springs.   2 smaller AL tubes are attached to the
front of the spar box and articulate with the Al tubing on the seat
back.   The size of the springs or the length of the tubing can be
changed as needed.

The seat part is also attached by 2 more hinges about a half inch in front
of the back hinges.   The seat is SEVERELY curved to match the curve
of my rear.   The front of the seat is held about 3 inches above the
floor so I guess you can say that my seat and the associated pad
makes a "thigh support".   The thickness of the pad is around a half
inch when I sit down and the seat is about 1/8 inch or less.   Even with
me sitting within a half inch of the floor, my head still touches the
plastic canopy.

I have not flown yet so I don't know if this seat will be comfortable.

Bruce Hughes

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Drew on June 04, 2007, 05:23:31 PM

My thigh support was made as per CP 28 page 8.  It has a drawing of the configurations as well as the following text:

"This little item really makes a difference to back seat comfort.  This position works excellently for people from 5'4" to 6'4".  Fabricate from R45 foam with 1 ply BID on each side."

I have flown people in the 6'4" range.  They kind of had to scrunch down with the headset---and tight fit on the shoulders---but they made it.

If you try to sit someone more erect, you are going to sacrifice the height of people you can fly.

Even though my rear seat comfort went way up by this mod, I have sat in other R/C seats that had even better comfort.  If you hop in one that you like, copy it.

Title: Restoration of Long-ez project
Post by: Bruce Hughes on June 04, 2007, 07:18:25 PM

Thanks Drew.   I will look it up.   CPs that old are stored in
my ministorage.   Will take a while to find it.

Bruce Hughes   :)

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Drew on June 04, 2007, 07:34:20 PM

Printed all the CPs from TERF (except 1-15---stuff prior to the Longez), indexed them via a spreadsheet, and put them in a two binders.  If I have a engine cooling issue or brake issue (or something), I search the spreadsheet for it, then go look it up.  Even though I have a Cozy now, many of the issues are still applicable.  I also have binders for CSA (not from the beginning---but only from where I started my subscription).  And I have the full Cozy Newsletters that you can order pretty cheap on CD from Spruce.

Title: Restoration of a Long-ez Project
Post by: Bruce Hughes on June 17, 2007, 10:59:58 AM

Drew, I cannot find the CP 28.   Is there some way that I can get
a copy or at least page 8?  

Thanks.    :D

Bruce Hughes

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: MikeD on June 19, 2007, 10:00:53 AM

I got a list of mods from Drew and Bruce.  All sounds reasonable and all of them will be considered, time permitting.

My progress has been substantial and rather hard work, I have finished (nearly) my workshop ready for winter and retrieved the complete project from way across the country (phew - that was an experience).

My workshop is at the back of a narrow carport and I was unsure whether the Long-EZ with the main gear in place would go through!  We tried everyway, even upside down and at various angles, anyway the inevitable had to happen... off with the main gear (it was coming off anyway for a complete QA inspection before starting work on it).

I have a zero timed O-320 B3B engine ready to install so I think I will go for the longer nose mod but I'm now between the devil and the deep blue sea on the next item, your thoughts and advice would be most welcome.

Once the project is finished I have three choices:
1: Get in a crane to lift it over the house (in dollars about $3,000)
2: Knock down the carport and get divorced (again!) (anybody see the Long-EZ on e-bay, forced sale because of an impending divorced settlement), I think I'll give that a miss!
3: Fit retractables so I can take it in and out anytime I like as well as getting all the benefits.

I'm seriously looking at number 3: because I can deduct the crane ($3,000) costs from the price of the retractables :-)  My wife doesn't quite see it that way, she's not an accountant but a darn sight better at finances than I am. I still think the $4,000 I spent converting my small garage into a bigger workshop doesn't have anything to do with the project... it's added value to the property.

Title: Restoration of Long-Ez project
Post by: Drew on June 19, 2007, 05:33:44 PM

Bruce,
Give me an email address and I'll send you the CP you are looking for.